All purpose news and politics thread part v: The quickening

[PaulBullion]

MAGA operators are spreading false information about the Coronavirus online, like claiming that the tests only work if you have symptoms.

I guess it's to excuse the low level of testing in the US. It's insane.

[The Overlord]

I responded to these parts you edited into your into your original reply in an edit to my reply on the previous page so click back. And my parents (as stated in my original post) are lower middle class with fairly meh coverage.




It's exceedingly complex, and people paid much more than you or I are still struggling with making it run as well as possible. Never claimed otherwise.

To reiterate my main point: Americans who advocate this stuff need to understand that they simply cannot expect the quality of care and wait times to remain the same. If they're okay with a significant reduction in quality and significantly longer wait times, that's great. But if they're expecting today's quality of care, they will be sorely disappointed.

Except you are ignoring the parts you do not like to address

You are relying almost solely in anecdotal evidence and ignoring facts you do not like? Like all the Americans who have to file for bankruptcy due to medical bills:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cnb...ankruptcy.html

If the American system is so great, why is this an issue? Not an issue in Canada.

If the system is so bad, why was my dad able to get treated right away. See that is why anecdotal evidence does not work, because I can counter it with my own anecdotal evidence.

Both systems ration, one rations on greatest need, the other on ability to pay more.

https://www.aimseducation.edu/blog/u...e-differences/

Also Canada does not have the best system in the world, that would be France apparently, it's not the US at the top of the list:

https://worldpopulationreview.com/co...-in-the-world/

[The Overlord]

Heres a question. What are these "wonderful services"

I'm British and use the NHS, the last two years due to reasons I've had to use it more then ever in my 28 years of life, so whilst not a complete understanding of everything on offer I'd like to.think I'm slightly informed. And its doing a pretty damned good job despite being pushed by our Right Wing to breaking point.

So tell me, what does the American system offer ? Cause frankly I often hear its hype but statistically from what I understand its rather mediocre.

I was being facetious, I am not defending the US system, I live in Canada.

We're Liberals, not centrists. The only people n this thread who have done that are pro-Bernie Bros supporters who use that as an angle to attack whenever the Bernie Bros are complained about, by everyone. Liberals, centrists and leftists alike. What's bad about stopping the normalising of abuse and sexism, is that what you want the Democratic party to be like when leftists gain control? Why aren't you with us in this? If they're not who you are that's not who we're talking about, Bernie supporters don't equal Bernie Bros - that's a shield the Bernie Bros use to evade criticisms. Everyone is welcome in the party but Democrats will defend the party and themselves when attacked by bullies. Being progressives its disappointing that so many are so at ease with letting abuse to unchallenged. Have you learnt nothing from Trump?



I agree he should, but will you listen? Warren made overtures before and got nothing for it.

Well what's his pitch to left wingers who do not trust him on the issues?

And how many Bernie supporters were "Bernie Bros", what was the percentage? After a while it seemed like "Bernie Bros" was an excuse to tar almost all his supporters with the same brush and not deal with the issues the Bernie supporters brought up. Its like all those "Bernie Bros" talking points was a good way to say the Bernie supporters do not matter within the Democratic coalition.
It often seemed like this talk of Bernie Bros was an excuse to never address Bernie's policy ideas.

You want to want to promote unity, what is your side doing in that regard?

Do you really want the vile Bernie Bros to befoul the voting polls in November with their evil?

[WestPhillyPunisher]

MAGA operators are spreading false information about the Coronavirus online, like claiming that the tests only work if you have symptoms.

I guess it's to excuse the low level of testing in the US. It's insane.

Lord have mercy! The MAGA Maggots were certainly in fine form!

[Kirby101]

You just have to ask seniors who recently moved from private ins. to Medicare. I haven't met one who would go back.

[Gray Lensman]

You just have to ask seniors who recently moved from private ins. to Medicare. I haven't met one who would go back.

My mother would love to if she could still get it at the same price as when she was working. Mostly due to an uber-expensive psoriasis treatment that her old insurance covered and Medicare doesn't. The not-covered price is 5 figures. Monthly. She is trying to find an adequate replacement but they all seem to be in the same price range - after handing over your life savings.....what about next year?

[aja_christopher]

I was being facetious, I am not defending the US system, I live in Canada.



Well what's his pitch to left wingers who do not trust him on the issues?

And how many Bernie supporters were "Bernie Bros", what was the percentage? After a while it seemed like "Bernie Bros" was an excuse to tar almost all his supporters with the same brush and not deal with the issues the Bernie supporters brought up. Its like all those "Bernie Bros" talking points was a good way to say the Bernie supporters do not matter within the Democratic coalition.
It often seemed like this talk of Bernie Bros was an excuse to never address Bernie's policy ideas.

You want to want to promote unity, what is your side doing in that regard?

Do you really want the vile Bernie Bros to befoul the voting polls in November with their evil?

All of your anger won't win elections and it won't help the progressive agenda pass Congress -- only votes will do that.

Historically speaking the election is Trump's to win so don't blame "moderates" and "centrists" if that happens -- back when Obama was promoting progressive policies (and Republicans were smearing him as a "tax and spend liberal") "progressives" didn't show up to support them then and now the same is happening to Sanders, just as it did in 2016.

You keep holding a vote for Biden over the heads of "Democrats" -- and everyone in the world who want to see Trump out of office -- when in reality it's not up to anyone else to decide for you whether Trump is the better option than Biden.

You, Taz, Knight and all of the others keep insulting people and acting as if we have to "earn" your vote when the reality is that it's not our responsiblity to prove to you that Biden is a better option than Trump.

I've seen spoiled children that behave better than this when they don't get their way -- you trash everyone and everyone else but Sanders then when he loses primarily due to his lack of appeal to black voters -- you still act as if you are entitled to the nomination.

You're not -- and if you're delusional enough to think Trump is the better option then that's on you -- not Biden.

[Kirby101]

My mother would love to if she could still get it at the same price as when she was working. Mostly due to an uber-expensive psoriasis treatment that her old insurance covered and Medicare doesn't. The not-covered price is 5 figures. Monthly. She is trying to find an adequate replacement but they all seem to be in the same price range - after handing over your life savings.....what about next year?

Why do I think it doesn't cost that in any other country?

[PwrdOn]

My mother would love to if she could still get it at the same price as when she was working. Mostly due to an uber-expensive psoriasis treatment that her old insurance covered and Medicare doesn't. The not-covered price is 5 figures. Monthly. She is trying to find an adequate replacement but they all seem to be in the same price range - after handing over your life savings.....what about next year?

So your takeaway from this is that you now sympathize with all those people who can't afford insurance and couldn't even get treated for basic issues, never mind the kind of stuff you're describing, right?

[jetengine]

Why do I think it doesn't cost that in any other country?

You can go on the NHS website where they tell you how much your treatment would cost. Compare and contrast

[The Overlord]

All of your anger won't win elections and it won't help the progressive agenda pass Congress.

You keep holding a vote for Biden over the heads of "Democrats" -- and all Americans who want to see Trump out of office -- when in reality it's not up to anyone else to decide for you whether Trump is the better option than Biden.

You, Taz, Knight and all of the others keep insulting people and acting as if we have to "earn" your vote when the reality is that it's not our responsiblity to prove to you that Biden is a better option than Trump.

I've seen spoiled children that behave better than this when they don't get their way -- you trash everyone and everyone else but Sanders then when he loses primarily due to his lack of appeal to black voters -- you still act as if you are entitled to the nomination.

You're not -- and if you're delusional enough to think Trump is the better option then that's on you -- not Biden.

Then fine, the evil Bernie Bros are children and should be punished by being sent their rooms for all of November? Okay. Maybe put holy water on the voting booth to burn the hands of the vile Bernie Bros.

Also I live in Canada, so I am not voting regardless.

It seems like your version of party unity is to say everyone should shut up and submit completely to the Biden side, that sounds like submission, not unity. How are your insults supposed to encourage party unity?

Is it the people's job to vote for Biden or Biden's job to convince them to vote for him?

You can't have it both ways, you can't tar Bernie supporters as irredeemable sexist, racist monsters and then kindly ask for their vote in November.

Are you going to swallow your pride for the sake of party unity or keep tarring the entire Bernie movement with the Bernie Bros brush?

[aja_christopher]

Then fine, the evil Bernie Bros are children and should be punished by being sent their rooms for all of November? Okay. Maybe put holy water on the voting booth to burn the hands of the vile Bernie Bros.

Also I live in Canada, so I am not voting regardless.

It seems like your version of party unity is to say everyone should shut up and submit completely to the Biden side, that sounds like submission, not unity. How are your insults supposed to encourage party unity?

Is it the people's job to vote for Biden or Biden's job to convince them to vote for him?

You even start out exaggerating that you're "evil" when I'm just pointing out how Sanders supporters trash every other candidate and their supporters -- just stop trashing other candidates, the Democratic party, and those who want to see Trump out of office and the problem is solved.

Again -- I'm not going to waste time on this.

If you think Trump is the better candidate then that's on you -- not Biden or anyone posting on this forum.

At this point you know what each one represents ("Obama" vs. Trump) so there are no excuses.

[The Overlord]

You even start out exaggerating that you're "evil" when I'm just pointing out how Sanders supporters trash every other candidate and their supporters -- just stop trashing other candidates, the Democratic party, and those who want to see Trump out of office and the problem is solved.

Again -- I'm not going to waste time on this.

If you think Trump is the better candidate then that's on you -- not Biden or anyone posting on this forum.

At this point you know what each one represents ("Obama" vs. Trump) so there are no excuses.

Its called sarcasm. And your insults do nothing to promote party unity. It seems your pride is more important than party unity. Heck I guess pride matters more than beating Trump eh? Because it seems belittling Bernie supporters is more important to you than getting their support, it seems like do not want them in your coalition.

And your comparison of Bernie supporters to children is similar to Hillary comparing someone wanting Medicare For All to a child wanting a pony, just a way to dismiss legitimate concerns.

And guess what, Clinton ran the "I am not Trump" campaign and she lost, so Biden better have a better plan than that.

And you keep on avoiding this question, is it the job of Bernie supporters to vote for Biden or is it Biden's job to convince them to vote for him?

[Jackmando7]

I think Jackmando is serious.

You're a real meanie, friendly.

[aja_christopher]

Its called sarcasm. And your insults do nothing to promote party unity. It seems your pride is more important than party unity.

And guess what, Clinton ran the "I am not Trump" campaign and she lost, so Biden better have a better plan than that.

And you keep on avoiding this question, is it the job of Bernie supporters to vote for Biden or is it Biden's job to convince them to vote for him?

I didn't insult anyone -- if I wanted to insult you, you'd know it.

You just want to argue and I don't have time to waste on that -- spend less time arguing and more time getting people to vote for your "ideals".

Moderate Democrats won the midterms in 2018 -- they can stand on their record.

When Sanders and progressives can do the same they won't have to resort to picking fights on online forums because they can't win elections.

As for your question -- assuming Biden wins the nomination, people should vote for the candidate they prefer in the general election.

If you support Trump more than Biden, then that says more about you than it does Biden.

And -- if you prefer to sit out because "both sides" then don't complain when progressives lose more SC justices and get four more years of Trump.

Not going to pretend it's complicated when it isn't -- support for Sanders does not mean you should destroy everything else in the process.