All purpose news and politics thread part v: The quickening

[Michael Watkins]

Dems have no grounds to stand on though as they supported Hilary Clinton in 2016.

did we? news to me.

[TriggerWarning]

Except (Accept) that Hillary Clinton isn't running for President this year.

No she isn't but how can we take dems outrage seriously when they weren't outraged then. Or when they like many are falling all over themselves to worship Kobe Bryant despite his rape. Why are some men not held accountable like Bill Clinton or Kobe Bryant while others are raked over the coals over far more flimsy allegations, like the ones against Kavanaugh?

[Michael Watkins]

Sanders lost to Hillary badly in 2016 b

except in college towns and rural areas. Clinton really pulled the rug out from beneath Biden. because now everyone knows what happens when you embrace a moderate. you lose to Trump.

No she isn't but how can we take dems outrage seriously when they weren't outraged then. Or when they like many are falling all over themselves to worship Kobe Bryant despite his rape. Why are some men not held accountable like Bill Clinton or Kobe Bryant...

or the current President? no idea. you could ask some Trump supporters. what are their values, exactly?

[aja_christopher]

except in college towns and rural areas. Clinton really pulled the rug out from beneath Biden. because now everyone knows what happens when you embrace a moderate. you lose to Trump.

Or you win election and re-election like Clinton and Obama -- and the "moderate" Reagan as well.

If anything, Trump was considered the moderate in that election since Hillary tried to shift to the left to cater to Sanders supporters. All Trump and the Republicans had to do to win was say they'd undo all of Obama's "progressive" legislation, whether it was regarding health care, corporate regulation, the environment, or civil rights.

A lot of people think that's exactly why she lost independent voters -- not because of her "moderate" stances, but her shift towards "progressive" politics. Then when she got to the general, she lost just like Sanders lost to her when he tried to sell extremely "progressive" politics to Democratic voters.

Again -- let's talk reality: losing one election (where Sanders divided the party and both the FBI and the Russians interfered in the election) after winning two others does not mean that moderates don't win elections. It's simply a fact that moderates -- whether Republican or Democrat -- are the ones who actually win most presidential elections.

Democrats don't win every election -- no party does. But if you want to prove that progressives can do better, then name every "Sanders-like" progressive president who has won both election and re-election in the past century or so, then compare that to the number of moderates who have won and see what happens.

[BeastieRunner]

She lost because of the electoral college.

After the 2020 census, the EC is on deathwatch, even with all their weird counting things the GOP got into it.

We're 1-2 election cycles away from US major population centers in each state being so big the EC will be rendered moot.

That< I think, is the main reason the GOP won't abandon Trump. They need to hedge their power and the courts before the party is a permanent minority party.

[Michael Watkins]

Or you win election and re-election like Clinton and Obama -- and the "moderate" Reagan as well.

the definition has greatly changed

If anything, Trump was considered the moderate in that election since Hillary tried to shift to the left to cater to Sanders supporters.

Trump ran as a populist non politician; the exact opposite of what Clinton is and was.

[aja_christopher]

the definition has greatly changed

Trump ran as a populist non politician; the exact opposite of what Clinton is and was.

You're still dodging facts -- show where Sanders-like progressives have won the presidency more than moderates.

Back up your statement that voting for a moderate means you want to lose the election with facts.

Based on history, it's far more logical to say that voting for a progressive means you want to lose both the primaries and the general election.

And re-election if you include Jimmy Carter.

[Michael Watkins]

You're still dodging facts -- show where Sanders-like progressives have won the presidency more than moderates.

i would if there had been a progressive with as much support as Sanders in a position to do this, in the past.

Back up your statement that voting for a moderate means you want to lose the election with facts.

the last election, for starters.

[aja_christopher]

the last election, for starters.

One election does not represent every election, especially when the "moderate" is trying to cater to "progressives" with her politics.

But fair enough -- that's one in recent history.

In turn I'll name Reagan, Bush, Bush Jr, Obama and Clinton, so that's nine elections to your one.

Ironically, by your logic, Sanders' loss in 2016 proves that progressives can't win elections.

[shooshoomanjoe]

No she isn't but how can we take dems outrage seriously when they weren't outraged then. Or when they like many are falling all over themselves to worship Kobe Bryant despite his rape. Why are some men not held accountable like Bill Clinton or Kobe Bryant while others are raked over the coals over far more flimsy allegations, like the ones against Kavanaugh?

You trump supporters need to let Hillary go from your hearts.

[SquirrelMan]

To put it simply...

https://www.cnn.com/2019/03/07/polit...ors/index.html





That sounds like something Tucker Carlson would say.

If you are calling for a party without the likes of Rogan in it, you should certainly ask yourself if the person who said what is in blue should have a place in the party.

Never mind that it's way worse than the Sander's quote that is supposedly going to hurt him.

Why bring up Biden at all?

I was comparing the kit glove treatment of Sanders with the shellacking Kerry got. Kerry... Kerry is not Biden, #30.

[aja_christopher]

Why bring up Biden at all?

Because the goal is to attack Democrats, not give them the best statistical chance to beat Republicans.

[Michael Watkins]

One election does not represent every election, especially when the "moderate" is trying to cater to "progressives" with her politics.

But fair enough -- that's one in recent history.

In turn I'll name Reagan, Bush, Bush Jr, Obama and Clinton, so that's nine elections to your one.

Ironically, by your logic, Sanders' loss in 2016 proves that progressives can't win elections.

you either learn from last election or allow the orange idiot another term. i'm hoping that progressives learn from the last primary and show up to support Bernie. i said this several pages back but Trump has clearly been planning to defeat Biden. he presumed that he would be his competition. and that dirt that his administration has dug up on Biden and his kid has stuck. why can't you see that he's a wounded animal? is Biden the only option for you? i, at least, could easily accept Elizabeth Warren.

[SquirrelMan]

did we? news to me.

Some of you didn't, which led directly to babies in cages.

Proud?

[SquirrelMan]

i would if there had been a progressive with as much support as Sanders in a position to do this, in the past.



the last election, for starters.

The last election was a huge blue wave, Mike. Mostly replacing Republicans with moderate Democrats.