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  1. #4846
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    I wonder if any of these "best people" ever think out loud "I'm like a bad looking extra in a 007 film" before going on with their day.

  2. #4847
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    Bernie better fucking deliver if he wins, cause if he's a lame duck then you've just killed the progressive movement dead in the USA.

  3. #4848

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Overlord View Post
    Doug Ford is currently Premier of Ontario, Canada's largest province, which is akin to being governor of a major US state, so he certainly has a shot, depends on who the Federal Tories intend to run next time.

    And really in Canada, a vote for the party is the vote for the head of the government (the Queen is still head of state in Canada, embodied by the Governor-General, who does unimportant ceremonial stuff and has no real power), people will often vote for the party that is led by their chosen candidate for Prime Minister, knowing that is how you support the candidate for PM.

    Plus the Prime Minister has to go into the House of Commons and answer questions from the opposition when the house in session, Trump doesn't have to do that, does he?

    Heck, even Canada's finical scandals are kids stuff compared to the US.

    https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/lee-tu...b_7596256.html

    I am pretty sure Trump wastes more than that by lunch on a slow Tuesday.
    To be fair, Canadians don't get to vote for the queen either. Although the parliament does get to approve the Governor-General.

    From my understanding, there are advantages and disadvantages to the Canadian system over the US (and if I'm wrong about any of this, let me know.)

    A parliamentary system does remove some of the checks and balances, as the head of government is also the head of the legislature, so there is less pushback against their agenda. Democrats get pissed off about limits on what Democratic presidents can do, but are probably happy that Trump faces a Democratic House majority restricting what he can do. It's easier for the legislators to pick a new leader in between elections (Votes of "No Confidence" and the like) and personalities probably matter less when the head of government is selected by the legislature and not primary voters.

    There won't really be much of an opportunity for split ticket voting, although most people already vote straight ticket in the US, so I can see why some would want the bite the bullet and go with making things better with the system as it is. The lack of primaries does make it easier to have multiple parties. Right now, different constituencies can hash it out within the Republican and Democratic primaries, but without a primary process to give everyone a voice, you could easily have multiple parties instead. This may be where personalities come in, as a popular candidate for Prime Minister could bring in a lot of hangers-on (Emanuel Macron created a new party in France that won 308 out of 577 legislative seats, with 42 more going to an allied party.) There is the argument that with multiple parties comes a need for coalitions and consensus, as no one would be able to get a majority by themselves and they'll have to work together, although this suggests that someone clever won't be able to exploit the system. And there's also the possibility for chaos when no consensus exists (see Israel right now.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Malvolio View Post
    SMH. Let's get one thing clear, once and for all. Yes, the fix was in for the Democratic nomination in 2016. THE FIX HAS ALWAYS BEEN IN! They always support the most establishment candidate. In 2016, that happened to be Hillary Clinton. Bernie Sanders knew that going in and accepted it, but some of his supporters deluded themselves into believing it would be a level playing field, so when they found it wasn't, they cried foul. But seriously, when you agree to play a game, you ought to read up on the rules, whether or not you think they're fair.
    "The Fix is in and that's normal" isn't a great approach to get voters on your side later. "Yes, we manipulated the system against someone you believed in; please back our guy because you're backed into a corner." is not an appealing argument.
    Quote Originally Posted by jetengine View Post
    Yeah I think your seeing stuff you want to here. Its more them just "Muh American conservatives"

    This is purely optics and whats considered professionalism. If 80% of the public think a pole = strip club which (like it ir not) many consider trashy, then their not going to want to be involved. If your going to rail on perceptions and being sex-phobic then your going to have to target pretty much the whole planet, cause despite certain nations being more open Sex Workers are still treated like garbage irrespective.
    It's usually not up to presidential contenders to explain the nuances of a subculture to a mainstream audience, especially with the possibility of getting into uncomfortable side-discussions.

    Quote Originally Posted by SquirrelMan View Post
    New Monmouth poll sees no such surge:



    ❇️
    Biden 30%
    ❇️
    Sanders 23%
    ❇️
    Warren 14%
    ❇️
    Bloomberg 9%
    ❇️
    Buttigieg 6%
    ❇️
    Klobuchar 5%
    There are going to be a lot of unknowns right now.

    I could easily imagine Sanders winning big by encouraging people who don't usually vote in primaries to go for him (as some did in 2016.)

    Quiet Democrats underrepresented on the internet could easily go big for Biden, giving him a bigger than expected win.

    Then there's the question of what'll happen in Iowa precincts where supporters of candidates who don't get 15% move on to a second choice. Maybe Warren benefits as a compromise choice, or Biden and Sanders benefit due to name recognition.

    Interesting that polls consistently show 60% of Democrats backing a white guy over the age of 75, be it Sanders, Biden or Bloomberg.

  4. #4849
    Mighty Member zinderel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WestPhillyPunisher View Post
    I don't recall having called Sanders supporters "Bernie Bros". Right now, given what's going on in Washington, that's the dead LAST thing on my mind. THIS, I have said: If Sanders is the candidate, I will vote for him, the objective is to get Trump the fuck out of office, if Bernie can pull that off, good!
    100%.

    And that is true for most people who are tired of the obsessiveness of some Bernie supporters. I will support Bernie with all I am able to, if he gets the nomination. I just want to know that we can count on the not-a-cult Bernie supporters to do the same for whoever else might win the nom if it ISN'T Bernie, or if we can count on four more years of “Bernie should have won, if not for Hillary/Obama voters/‘fake’ leftists, etc.” clogging up this thread every day...
    Last edited by zinderel; 01-22-2020 at 04:01 PM.

  5. #4850

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    Quote Originally Posted by InformationGeek View Post
    If we must talk about stupid things on the campaign trail, let's bring up this bit of stupidity.



    She never said Tulsi's name. Tulsi overreacted and is ranting over and over and over about it, drawing attention to herself and saying Clinton meant her. Sooooooooooooooooooooooo, yeah.
    Well because Clinton smears and lies about people all the time. I literally posted just one page back how she smeared Obama and his supporters as Obama boys. She can't help it. Shes a liar to her core.but please ignore the insinuations that Clinton and Biden aren't terrible and divisive to the party.
    Is always confused.....

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  6. #4851
    Paranoid Android ChadH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by InformationGeek View Post
    If we must talk about stupid things on the campaign trail, let's bring up this bit of stupidity.



    She never said Tulsi's name. Tulsi overreacted and is ranting over and over and over about it, drawing attention to herself and saying Clinton meant her. Sooooooooooooooooooooooo, yeah.
    At least we can all agree on our hate for Tulsi Gabbard.
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  7. #4852
    Ultimate Member numberthirty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zinderel View Post
    100%.

    And that is true for most people who are tired of the obsessiveness of some Bernie supporters. I will support Bernie with all I am able to, if he gets the nomination. I just want to know that we can count on the not-a-cult Bernie supporters to do the same for whoever else might win the nom if it ISN'T Bernie, or if we can count on four more years of “Bernie should have won, if not for Hillary/Obama voters/‘fake’ leftists, etc.” clogging up this thread every day...
    To put all of this simply...

    Right after The Democratic Party lost the Presidency and Congress to The Republican Party in 2016, Senate Democrats gave Sanders a leadership position.

    You don't get to to the above, and say "Hey, By The Way, Could You Just Not Mention How We Just Face Planted Going Forward Even Though We Are Asking For Your Help?"

    If Sanders' backers are important enough that their not backing the party could be consequential enough to wind up in a loss for The Democratic Party, than they are certainly important enough to get a say along with that involvement.
    Last edited by numberthirty; 01-22-2020 at 05:06 PM.

  8. #4853
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superbat View Post
    In response to attacks on us and our candidate.
    It's not just here -- if you go to Reddit, Gamefaqs, Salon (etc) you will see nothing but attacks on Biden and "corporate" Democrats by Sanders supporters.

    https://old.reddit.com/r/politics/?hl=

    There are virtually no attacks on Sanders on those forums but there are attacks on -- and lies about -- Biden (Harris, O'Rourke, Hillary, and recently Warren, etc) on every single political forum I've visited, many of them dishonest and filled with outright spite for Biden or any other "mainstream" Democrat who doesn't fulfill their political ideal in the same way as does Sanders.

    It was Warren during the debates, then a day later it was Biden over Social Security. Before that it was O'Rourke, Harris, and Hillary.

    If there is one thing Sanders supporters should not do, it's try to play the victim while constantly throwing stones at others.

    Just prove your candidates can win by voting them into office instead of causing everyone to lose to Trump.

    People have already agreed to vote for Bernie if he wins -- that's really the best you can hope for at this point, given the divisiveness at hand.
    Last edited by aja_christopher; 01-22-2020 at 05:17 PM.

  9. #4854
    Ultimate Member numberthirty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChadH View Post
    At least we can all agree on our hate for Tulsi Gabbard.
    "Our Hate..." means you are playing her game.

    Just trying to let her play herself probably makes a bit more sense.

  10. #4855
    "Comic Book Reviewer" InformationGeek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tazirai View Post
    Well because Clinton smears and lies about people all the time. I literally posted just one page back how she smeared Obama and his supporters as Obama boys. She can't help it. Shes a liar to her core.but please ignore the insinuations that Clinton and Biden aren't terrible and divisive to the party.
    I personally just dont care about this shit right now. I'm so exhausted by Trump crap that I don't care about this infighting. I'm voting straight blue no matter. Warren, Bernie, Petey, whatever.

    Anyone is better at this point. Once we get blue in, we can start fixing shit with blue.

  11. #4856
    Ultimate Member numberthirty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by InformationGeek View Post
    I personally just dont care about this shit right now. I'm so exhausted by Trump crap that I don't care about this infighting. I'm voting straight blue no matter. Warren, Bernie, Petey, whatever.

    Anyone is better at this point. Once we get blue in, we can start fixing shit with blue.
    That ignores a pretty basic reality...

    If HRC is on Howard Stern saying that she hopes Sanders will just support the eventual nominee while pulling what she has over the last couple of days, there is no scenario where that is working towards what you are talking about.

    If anything it works towards doing the opposite of what you are saying that you want.

  12. #4857
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    Quote Originally Posted by numberthirty View Post
    "Our Hate..." means you are playing her game.
    On this, we agree.

    I don't even hate Trump -- I just think he's a threat to our democracy and should be removed from office, if not jailed for his crimes.

  13. #4858

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    Quote Originally Posted by Celgress View Post
    First Warren & Sanders got at it and now the Ghost of Hillary returns to plague the Democratic Party lol. And some still wonder why I am pessimistic about getting rid of Trump. These people cannot unify. They have a talent for snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.
    Centrists use "Unity" as a weapon, basically telling Progresives shut up and bend the knee. Democrats have polls on their side for many issues and don't fight for our votes. We're just supposed to be Tribal and vote for incrementalism, #civility, and Trump bad sad and basically no change.

    This is why we lose. Even when we get rid of dump, and get a centrist, then what?
    Lol.
    Work with people locking up children?
    Is always confused.....

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  14. #4859
    Incredible Member Superbat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zinderel View Post
    100%.

    And that is true for most people who are tired of the obsessiveness of some Bernie supporters. I will support Bernie with all I am able to, if he gets the nomination. I just want to know that we can count on the not-a-cult Bernie supporters to do the same for whoever else might win the nom if it ISN'T Bernie, or if we can count on four more years of “Bernie should have won, if not for Hillary/Obama voters/‘fake’ leftists, etc.” clogging up this thread every day...
    We have already said over and over again that we will vote for the candidate but you already know that. You didn't ask that question in good faith.
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  15. #4860
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    I agree that dems need an overhaul but Bernie with his pie in the sky promises, pro gun stance and wacky alternative medicine beliefs coupled with his advanced age and weakened heart isn't the right leader.

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