All purpose news and politics thread part v: The quickening

[TheDarman]

Well it’s not like we don’t acknowledge the concerns of middle class black folks we just think they take lower priority than the needs of the working class. Like yeah it’s not great that you’re stuck at Junior VP because your boss is not-racist-but-ehhh-Bell-Curve, but let’s make sure that everyone below you had health care first, then we can work on getting you that promotion.

The response to this is "why not focus on doing both"? Especially since the alternatives to Bernie's health care plan aren't "well, we aren't going to do ANYTHING to fix health care and focus ONLY on social promotion of racial and ethnic minorities", but really "hey, let's maybe see if a public option will help curb cost increases while also offering a government health care plan for poorer individuals to buy into or get completely subsidized into because we, as the government, can set these prices". After all, if there is only one health care plan in the country, what happens when Republicans take control of the executive branch and, with HHS, work to restrict women's access to abortions or contraceptives through government health care? I mean, at least the damage would be mitigated with a private sector willing to provide these plans for a little more a month and Obamacare is still around to off-set costs with subsidies. There are drawbacks to such plans and they are legitimate. There are also legitimate alternatives to those plans.

[Kieran_Frost]

If Sanders hadn't entered the race, the other Democrats wouldn't have felt a need to join forces.
It's not that they want to oppose Sanders, it's that he projects an image of paranoia, divisiveness, antagonism, and anger at the 'Establishment'.
He has forced their hands.

Agreed. And they learnt from the UK's problems in Labour, and stopped him BEFORE it got too late.

I would have rather it been Warren, but Biden will do well for the country.

Agreed. My running order was Pete, Warren then Biden. Bottom of the list was Bloomberg. He just... it didn't feel like he was running to make the country better, it felt he was running for the ego (my personal opinion).

So, let’s do some data breakdowns!

Massachusetts
Biden + Bloomberg + Buttigieg + Klobauchar - 49.6%
Sanders + Warren - 47.8%

Maine
Biden + Bloomberg + Buttigieg + Klobauchar - 49.6%
Sanders + Warren - 48.7%

Minnesota
Biden + Bloomberg + Buttigieg + Klobauchar - 53.5%
Sanders + Warren - 45.3%

Oklahoma
Biden + Bloomberg + Buttigieg + Klobauchar - 56.5%
Sanders + Warren - 38.8%

This was brilliant to see in black-and-white, thank-you. So interesting seeing the numbers like this.

Also, please stop with the Bernie Bros ****. It's old and tired, and you're lying when you use it to attack people. That's what's going to turn us away from your guy.
I might vote, but others will not. But go ahead keep up the lying.

Cause and effect. Don't blame the effect. Tackle the cause.

[Billy Batson]

A confused Joe Biden tells the crowd he wants to increase premiums and make sure that healthcare is "not quality, but only affordable".

[Theleviathan]

Actually footage of me checking the news on my phone when I woke up this morning...

This made me laugh.

[Theleviathan]

I don't think it's over, but I do think the tide has turned, and it's less likely to swing back again in time to stop Biden securing the nomination..

I'm willing to say it is. Super Tuesday had to go big for Bernie and he knew it. The fact that it didn't is a huge blow. Look at the March 10th and 17th slates.....he'll be lucky to pick up a third of the states voting.

[aja_christopher]

I wonder why the Democrats can't come together this fast on issues that I see matter like climate change actual good health care and things like that. They can come together really quick to help us interest but they can't come together to actually help the American people it's amazing.

You're being dishonest again -- Republicans are the ones who prevent those things from happening.

https://obamawhitehouse.archives.gov...te-action-plan

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clinto...e_plan_of_1993

A confused Joe Biden tells the crowd he wants to increase premiums and make sure that healthcare is "not quality, but only affordable".

A confused Sanders supporter still doesn't get that he's not helping his candidate by insulting others.

It's almost as if you want to see Sanders lose again since you're repeating the same behavior of 2016.

[Kieran_Frost]

Bernie's bet was always (he's said it himself) to turn out the young voters.

Well....they didn't show up. Period. Not some conspiracy about open primaries. Not about same day registration. They've known for the better part of 4 years that they could be ready to vote for Bernie. They....didn't....show.

And frankly, it's not that surprising. That's what the data has said historically forever. Had Bernie reversed that trend he'd have deserved the nomination. He couldn't. So he shouldn't.

I think the world needs to stop catering to the young quite so much. They are the fickliest, least loyal group across nearly every category. TV shows do this all the time. The data PROVES the most loyal TV watchers, the largest group of TV watchers, the people who buy off the adverts surround shows most... are all older. So why is every other show catering for the youth market??? When they historically don't stay loyal to a show as much, when they don't buy off the adverts as much, when they don't follow the show if it changes time slot or channel. Marks and Spencers did this, they had such a loyal market in the middle class woman, but wanted to be "kewwwwwwl" so started catering to the young. And what happened? They finally pushed away their loyal market, and failed to get the youth to buy their clothes. Stupid.

Corbyn bet on the youth vote in the UK too. And look how that turned out.

I wonder why the Democrats can't come together this fast on issues that I see matter like climate change actual good health care and things like that. They can come together really quick to help us interest but they can't come together to actually help the American people it's amazing.

If it was only Democrates in the Senate and Congress, I bet they could. But what is constantly ignored is this is almost THE ONLY time Democrates get to do everything how they want, without having to deal with Republican motivations.

[Kieran_Frost]

This made me laugh.

YEY!!!! I'm glad it made someone smile!

It popped into my head while making my muesli, and I knew I had to post it.

You're being dishonest again -- Republicans are the ones who prevent those things from happening.

https://obamawhitehouse.archives.gov...te-action-plan

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clinto...e_plan_of_1993

Awwwww... we had the same thought. YEY! Simpatico!

[PwrdOn]

The response to this is "why not focus on doing both"? Especially since the alternatives to Bernie's health care plan aren't "well, we aren't going to do ANYTHING to fix health care and focus ONLY on social promotion of racial and ethnic minorities", but really "hey, let's maybe see if a public option will help curb cost increases while also offering a government health care plan for poorer individuals to buy into or get completely subsidized into because we, as the government, can set these prices". After all, if there is only one health care plan in the country, what happens when Republicans take control of the executive branch and, with HHS, work to restrict women's access to abortions or contraceptives through government health care? I mean, at least the damage would be mitigated with a private sector willing to provide these plans for a little more a month and Obamacare is still around to off-set costs with subsidies. There are drawbacks to such plans and they are legitimate. There are also legitimate alternatives to those plans.

The thing is, there is always the problem of adverse selection when you split up the insurance pool like that and let people self select what plan they want. While the coercive element is probably not ideal, it's simply more efficient overall to put everyone on the same plan.

Also, to add on to what I said earlier, I do recognize that a lot of "progressive" movements in other countries, especially in Europe, are really just cover for nationalistic agendas that benefit the "native" working class by sheltering it from competition from immigrants and minorities, and maybe there are a few people out there who are suspicious that the Sanders campaign is really more of that. But the thing is, these days the working class in America is so overwhelmingly composed of recent immigrants and so ethnically diverse that trying to build a movement to benefit the one WASP who is still somehow stuck working construction is kind of ludicrous on the face of it.

[ed2962]

I still haven't seen a policy that Bernie Sanders has stated that he truly has to address racial inequity in the country other than providing economic aide to poorer folks and asking for criminal justice reform. I'm sorry, but that feels like a minimization of the lived experience of many black folks. Meanwhile, I think Biden stating, unequivocally, that he would start actively targeting right wing terrorism and focus on trying to reform voting laws and focus on trying to ensure that there is adequate justice under the law and so on and so forth has resonated well with people and doesn't see their status as either "poor" or "criminal".

However, if you don't see that that way, that is great. And, obviously, as a black man yourself, you have a lot more to say about it through that lens than I could ever hope to. I'm glad you found a candidate that you could appreciate.

Really? Biden giving people stories about how he made friends with Corn Pop...

[aja_christopher]

The thing is, there is always the problem of adverse selection when you split up the insurance pool like that and let people self select what plan they want. While the coercive element is probably not ideal, it's simply more efficient overall to put everyone on the same plan.

Also, to add on to what I said earlier, I do recognize that a lot of "progressive" movements in other countries, especially in Europe, are really just cover for nationalistic agendas that benefit the "native" working class by sheltering it from competition from immigrants and minorities, and maybe there are a few people out there who are suspicious that the Sanders campaign is really more of that. But the thing is, these days the working class in America is so overwhelmingly composed of recent immigrants and so ethnically diverse that trying to build a movement to benefit the one WASP who is still somehow stuck working construction is kind of ludicrous on the face of it.

To your credit, you've given this a lot of thought.



The problem lies in the fact that most voters haven't and thus won't share your views.

[The Overlord]

Bernie is like the grandmaster of "Losing to Bad Candidates" in that case.....

Let's be clear - and I hope thirty reads this too - Bernie is a non-viable candidate if he can't get black voter supporter. People like you telling black people they're too stupid to vote for him is a reflection of the core of why Bernie never appealed. Everyone who isn't a Bernie cultists sees that nasty underbelly and turns away.

And his only hope to win was to drive out thirty's precious unicorns - those young or disenfranchised voters yearning for the right person, at the right time, with the right conditions, so that they would maybe get out and vote. Well, shock of all shocks, that perfect storm didn't exist to the tune of tens of thousands....so he's simply not viable. You can cry about how great his policies are and all of that....but at the end of the day he never had a shot. Not in the primary and not in the general. The only question now is if Bernie has the integrity to hold to his own words just a week ago and concede. It's only a matter of time before the inevitable.

This race is over in terms of who will win the majority of the vote and the delegates from this point forward.

The race is not over yet, but at this point, I think Biden will the nomination.

But here's the thing, you say Bernie is not a viable candidate, then fine that is your opinion.

But if Biden's case is that he is the most electable, then it's his responsibility to win, his success or failure should be his own doing and if he fails, he should take responsibility for it.

No one has a moral obligation to vote for Biden, its Biden's job to convince people to vote for him, it's not the job of anyone to vote for him. He has to close the deal with the public, he has to make the case why he should be President and I am hoping he is run on something stronger than ''I'm not Trump''. He better brings his A-game and stops being offended when someone asks him a tough question.

I hope Biden wins if he is the nominee, but if his case is he is the most electable, he should be held responsibility for his successes or failures.

[aja_christopher]

I hope Biden wins if he is the nominee, but if his case is he is the most electable, he should be held responsibility for his successes or failures.

Agreed -- but I still blame the American public if they choose Trump over Biden.

At that point it will basically be a question of whether they prefer what they had with Obama or what they now have with Trump.

Trump was in some ways an unknown before -- people can't hide behind that excuse anymore.

[PwrdOn]

Agreed -- but I still blame the American public if they choose Trump over Biden.

At that point it will basically be a question of whether they prefer what they had with Obama or what they now have with Trump.

Trump was in some ways an unknown before -- people can't hide behind that excuse anymore.

The thing is though, the Trump administration has made it okay for people to just go mask off with their racism and xenophobia without worrying about the social backlash, and as it turns out that comprises a MUCH larger segment of American society than anyone had ever thought before. Trying to shame them back into muzzling those views isn't going to work anymore.

[aja_christopher]

The thing is though, the Trump administration has made it okay for people to just go mask off with their racism and xenophobia without worrying about the social backlash, and as it turns out that comprises a MUCH larger segment of American society than anyone had ever thought before.

Only the people who don't know much about the reality of American society thought that way.



A lot of us saw it coming from a mile away.

I don't care about "shaming" anyone -- either Americans think someone like Trump deserves a second term over Biden or they don't.