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  1. #15046
    Extraordinary Member Malvolio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tazirai View Post
    Sanders didn't fail. stop being disingenuous., When you fight power, power protects power to put in place things to keep protecting power.
    If Sanders failed so hard as you say, why are HIS ideas the most popular, with people even attributing them to Biden.

    When you have to fight the Media, Centrists, the Establishment, big business, voter apathy (Since they think nothing will change), etc.
    Then you get shitty candidates who literally say to those same powers, Vote for me, nothing will fundamentally change. To all those people that means things go back to "normal"
    because the American voter has Stockholm Syndrome. They don't expect anything, just more of the same, so why take a risk and vote for actual change? I can vote out Trump
    and things will go back to normal, its' what they're used to.

    Go read history duke. Change both takes time and happens all at once. I don't have an issue with either. I lie, I wished Sanders had campaigned harder against his "friends" who kept stabbing him in the back,
    and he keeps playing nice with them.

    Tell me Steel, what can voters expect once Democrats take power, if they do. What are they going to do to help people?
    We've had the house since 2018, and what have they actually done to help us? Had this virus not come alongg, we wouldn't have even gotten these crumsb.

    What do the American people have to look forward to?

    Normalcy? Lol.
    Do you not understand how Congress works? The Democratic controlled House can't get any of their bills passed if Mitch McConnell won't even let it go to the floor for a vote in the Senate. But Bernie Sanders is in the Senate, isn't he? If he's such a great uniter, why couldn't he get a few of his Republican colleagues to talk to McConnell to get an up or down vote?
    Watching television is not an activity.

  2. #15047
    Ultimate Member Kirby101's Avatar
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    "Media treats Sanders unfairly".
    Hillary says; "Here, hold my beer."
    There came a time when the Old Gods died! The Brave died with the Cunning! The Noble perished locked in battle with unleashed Evil! It was the last day for them! An ancient era was passing in fiery holocaust!

  3. #15048
    Extraordinary Member Malvolio's Avatar
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    The amazing thing is how some Sanders supporters said that if Bernie were the nominee in 2016, he would not have been as persecuted by the right wing media as Hillary was. But now these same people are whining about the mainstream "so-called liberal" media being unfair to Sanders? As one Democratic President once so famously said, "If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen."
    Watching television is not an activity.

  4. #15049
    Mighty Member TheDarman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tazirai View Post
    Sanders didn't fail. stop being disingenuous., When you fight power, power protects power to put in place things to keep protecting power.
    If Sanders failed so hard as you say, why are HIS ideas the most popular, with people even attributing them to Biden.
    Maybe itís because people like the message, but not the messenger.
    With Great Power, Comes Great Responsibility

    Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely.

  5. #15050
    Ultimate Member Gray Lensman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malvolio View Post
    The amazing thing is how some Sanders supporters said that if Bernie were the nominee in 2016, he would not have been as persecuted by the right wing media as Hillary was. But now these same people are whining about the mainstream "so-called liberal" media being unfair to Sanders? As one Democratic President once so famously said, "If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen."
    I can say that Sanders didn't have the hurdle of a 20+ year smear campaign against him, but conversely he had the hurdle of 'Socialism'. I don't know if the fact that anything that either helps people or the Republicans don't like gets tarred as 'socialism' has finally deadened people to the attack outside of the younger, less reliable voters. In 2 more election cycles I doubt the word will affect anyone who wasn't already voting Republican anyways, but for now it still has at least some effect on swing voters. So maybe it's a wash?
    "Theory: The Phoenix doesn't corrupt the characters, it corrupts the authors." Gambit, King of Thieves

  6. #15051
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheDarman View Post
    Maybe it’s because people like the message, but not the messenger.
    I don’t think there’s much evidence to indicate that. Most polls give Sanders strong rating in like ability. I think it’s more that there’s a large segment of the party that thinks moderates will win generals more

  7. #15052
    Mighty Member TheDarman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KNIGHT OF THE LAKE View Post
    I don’t think there’s much evidence to indicate that. Most polls give Sanders strong rating in like ability. I think it’s more that there’s a large segment of the party that thinks moderates will win generals more
    Sanders has high favorability in the party. But so did everyone else in the party. So it might be a case of people liking Biden more than Sanders on average. I think his message resonates and I think a more inclusive campaign would have yielded better results. But Sanders has run a fairly exclusive campaign twice and made little effort to reach out to critical voting blocs and attacked a party, incessantly, which has been the only ally for so many for so long. Personally, I think if Sanders had just endorsed Warren this primary season, we would have had Warren as the nominee. But both Sanders and Biden were spoilers for particular parts of her coalition.
    With Great Power, Comes Great Responsibility

    Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely.

  8. #15053
    Ultimate Member Mister Mets's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheDarman View Post
    Maybe it’s because people like the message, but not the messenger.
    If people really liked the message, how come there are so few other officeholders with the message?

    "Justice Democrat" backed candidates won gubernatorial primaries in Vermont and Maryland, and then lost the general election in a wave year for the Democratic party.
    Sincerely,
    Thomas Mets

  9. #15054
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Mets View Post
    If people really liked the message, how come there are so few other officeholders with the message?

    "Justice Democrat" backed candidates won gubernatorial primaries in Vermont and Maryland, and then lost the general election in a wave year for the Democratic party.
    People don’t vote on ideology

  10. #15055
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    Devin Nunes should go catch something to own the libs. He kinda deserves it.

    Even as Trump changes coronavirus message, Devin Nunes blasts stay-at-home moves

  11. #15056
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Inquisitor View Post
    Sanders lost, he's not coming back. There will be no victory at the last second. Stop quoting what other people say and form your own opinions. Siders ideas are popular but they're not running for president - he is. He's the one who isn't popular.



    Every candidate has to fight to become president, it's why team work is important to take the strain off and make governing possible once they win. Good politicians make allies, instead Sanders wants to make enemies of everyone and shockingly it ends up with him having a hard road to travel at getting anything done. Voting for Sanders isn't "actual change." He'll be curtailed by the GOP like very other Democratic president and if he somehow tries to do a Trump the Democrats would throw him out.



    Minimising how dangerous Trump is in an election. Hillary thought that, too.



    Things go back to normal because that's what the voters want.



    Sanders counts on the latter, and he hasn't got the capable to get that done in office. It's why he's on the sidelines in politics rather than at its centre. It's a self imposed exile. Sanders would have implode harder than he did if he followed your advice.



    Curious. Your argument hinges on tearing the party down rather than Sanders shifting them up. They've done as much as they're able since they have the House, the Republicans have the rest.



    That's a stronger message than what Sanders is saying.
    Let me ask you one. more. time.

    Tell me Steel, what can voters expect once Democrats take power if they do. What are they going to do to help people?
    We've had the house since 2018, and what have they actually done to help us? Had this virus not come along, we wouldn't have even gotten these crumbs.

    What do the American people have to look forward to?

    Normalcy? Lol.

  12. #15057
    Mighty Member TheDarman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Mets View Post
    If people really liked the message, how come there are so few other officeholders with the message?

    "Justice Democrat" backed candidates won gubernatorial primaries in Vermont and Maryland, and then lost the general election in a wave year for the Democratic party.
    I should amend my statement to state that these messages are popular among the Democratic Party. While even their support plummets when costs are discussed, they are still generally in favor of Sanders’ and others’ policies.

    Moderates often do like what they say in platitudes. But they don’t like the specifics.
    With Great Power, Comes Great Responsibility

    Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely.

  13. #15058
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malvolio View Post
    Do you not understand how Congress works? The Democratic controlled House can't get any of their bills passed if Mitch McConnell won't even let it go to the floor for a vote in the Senate. But Bernie Sanders is in the Senate, isn't he? If he's such a great uniter, why couldn't he get a few of his Republican colleagues to talk to McConnell to get an up or down vote?
    So when the Republicans didn't have any power and still got things done. What's your excuse about that?

    When the Democrats had power and didn't get anything done, what's your excuse for that?
    When Democrats aren't in the minority how can they say they'll do things, NEXT TIME over and over, and expect people to keep voting when they do nothing, when they have power?

    Republicans are fighters, and Democrats are not. Look at the wording of your post. It sounds defeatist. Like you can't fight for your ideas right now. You fight when and when you don't have power.
    Democrats offer weak milquetoast approaches all in the guise of "Getting things done." They weaken every bill in the hopes the GOP will someday like them, and the media won't shit on them for disagreeing with the Conservatives.

    Why do you need to be in charge to give a message of hope to the people you claim to serve, but never fight for?

    The new bill Pelosi is trotting out, the SALT tax removal I posted pages back and NO ONE looked at, because it doesn't suit the narrative that Democrats are awesome. It literally helps NO ONE except rich people.
    Umm, he got the Republicans to Vote on the Coronavirus Bill and getting the extra 600 in our pockets. What.are.you.even.talking.about?

    And he got them to vote for it.

    Bernie Sanders Promises To Stall Coronavirus Relief Bill If GOP Senators Don’t Drop Objections

  14. #15059
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheDarman View Post
    Maybe it’s because people like the message, but not the messenger.
    That's definitely not it. But keep trying.

  15. #15060
    Mighty Member TheDarman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tazirai View Post
    Let me ask you one. more. time.

    Tell me Steel, what can voters expect once Democrats take power if they do. What are they going to do to help people?
    We've had the house since 2018, and what have they actually done to help us? Had this virus not come along, we wouldn't have even gotten these crumbs.

    What do the American people have to look forward to?

    Normalcy? Lol.
    I’ll ask you Taz, do you think that Sanders would’ve yielded something so much better than Obama’s last two years in office?

    Sanders needs Congress. If he can’t lead moderates, which he has shown no interest in doing (only beating them), how does he pass anything serious? I’m legitimately asking.
    With Great Power, Comes Great Responsibility

    Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely.

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