All purpose news and politics thread part v: The quickening

[Tendrin]

*heavy sigh*

We have healthcare ratioining here too, TMIB. It's just not a visible statistic. And by any recorded statistic about health care quality, you're simply wrong. We have factual data on /both systems/, and one has worse outcomes, higher mortality, more costs, and less 'bang for the buck'... and sure as $#$@ not the Canadian system.

[The Overlord]

Many Canadians feel that way because they never experienced American healthcare, which is the only reason I felt the need to weigh in. Because I have extensive experience with both. And the wait times are a fact. Don't take my word for it, use Google and see what wait times are like in Ontario for these specialists. Facts are facts, not opinion.

My dad saw a doctor right away.

How many poor Canadians go down to the US for treatment?

Were your parents poor or well off? How many working poor Americans get the same level of treatment? Why is there so many medical bankruptcies in the US? Heck why do Canadians live longer than Americans?

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-39410236

Also I think the wait time issue is more complex than you are suggesting:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/askepti...g%3fformat=amp

Where you getting your stats from, the Fraiser Institute?

I would not trade Canada's system for the American one, no way in Hell.

[XPac]

The problem is when he says stuff like "marijuana is a gateway drug" it's like he is trying to scare young people from the polls. Jeez Joe, can you put in a minimal effort not scare people away. I hope for his sake the boomers that voted for him the primary are enough make up for the young people he is trying to drive away from the polls.

If younger voters are driven off because Joe wants them to just say no to drugs, then I'm not sure they're all that reliable to begin with.

Frankly I think that was a part of Bernies problem. He relied on what was arguably a very unreliable demographic to get him across the finish line and in the end they didn't quite show up.

If they didn't show up to Bernie, they're probably not going to show up for Biden. And yes, for the Democrats to have a chance they likely will need to hope the boomers make up for that. Honestly I'm not sure they will but what can ya do.

[numberthirty]

One guy's grumble...

The idea that there is no scenario where America could improve on the issues of the systems in other countries while also having a system where people are not left out in the cold/taken to the cleaners?

It is sold by people who make money off of people getting ripped off.

As long as you are willing to buy into that lie?

Systems that are built on theft will stay in place.

[Tazirai]

I will literally vote for anyone who gets me back in the country

Brilliant post, and good luck Knight. Stay well. Are they putting you up or anything?

[The Overlord]

If younger voters are driven off because Joe wants them to just say no to drugs, then I'm not sure they're all that reliable to begin with.

Frankly I think that was a part of Bernies problem. He relied on what was arguably a very unreliable demographic to get him across the finish line and in the end they didn't quite show up.

If they didn't show up to Bernie, they're probably not going to show up for Biden. And yes, for the Democrats to have a chance they likely will need to hope the boomers make up for that. Honestly I'm not sure they will but what can ya do.

No, it's because the drug war is BS and is part of the prison industrial complex that promotes mass incarceration and is an affront to personal liberties. If someone said they were not going to vote for someone because they wanted to reverse gay marriage, would you dismiss that concern?

Biden wants young people to vote for him and he is going to be this behind the times?

[TheManInBlack]

My dad saw a doctor right away.

How many poor Canadians go down to the US for treatment?

Were your parents poor or well off? How many working poor Americans get the same level of treatment? Why is there so many medical bankruptcies in the US? Heck why do Canadians live longer than Americans?

I responded to these parts you edited into your into your original reply in an edit to my reply on the previous page so click back. And my parents (as stated in my original post) are lower middle class with fairly meh coverage.

Also I think the wait time issue is more complex than you are suggesting

It's exceedingly complex, and people paid much more than you or I are still struggling with making it run as well as possible. Never claimed otherwise.

To reiterate my main point: Americans who advocate this stuff need to understand that they simply cannot expect the quality of care and wait times to remain the same. If they're okay with a significant reduction in quality and significantly longer wait times, that's great. But if they're expecting today's quality of care, they will be sorely disappointed.

[PaulBullion]

How does a man that over half of voters say they will not vote for him, winning an easy reelection?

Poll show both Sanders and Biden beating Trump by similar margins.
It could only be the Electoral College that would get Trump in.

And polls like that recent one from Arizona show Biden winning swing states, while Sanders is losing them against Trump.

[XPac]

No, it's because the drug war is BS and is part of the prison industrial complex that promotes mass incarceration and is an affront to personal liberties. If someone said they were not going to vote for someone because they wanted to reverse gay marriage, would you dismiss that concern?

Biden wants young people to vote for him and he is going to be this behind the times?

If someone said they were not going to vote for Biden because he was going to reverse gay marriage, I might dismiss that concern on the basis of Trump being more likely to reverse it than Biden.

Ultimately whether or not I would take issue with someone not voting for him really would depend on WHY. If a person genuinely feels Biden shouldn't be in the WH, and wishes to choose another candidate who better reflects their belief even in a losing effort I can respect that. But if they are willfully bringnig out an end result which will likely be less desirable for them simply because they are butt hurt, then the outcome they get is the outcome they deserve to get.

[PaulBullion]

The 2009 flu pandemic was more disastrous than covid 19. I don't remember being out of tp back then though.

Why do people think they know how bad covid-19 is? I mean, are you a virologist? A public health expert? The 2009 flu pandemic is over. covid-19 is NOT. I repeat: It is not over. It's only just beginning.

[PaulBullion]

I for one would love Biden to move towards Bernie on issues. When it was obvious Biden was going to win, the first thing I asked was how to get Sanders supporters to help. But no matter what, we must beat Trump. At some point they will need to stop attacking Biden as if he were the enemy.

I would prefer Biden to move towards Warren on issues, and there is indication that that is already happening.

Joe Bide campaign confirms that he has reviewed Elizabeth Warren’s bankruptcy plan closely, and is endorsing her proposal, as he said in his IL town hall.

That's a significant shift, as the proposal would largely undo the 2005 bankruptcy bill the two clashed over in Congress.

https://twitter.com/MollyNagle3/stat...534918662?s=20

[The no face guy]

I'm probably going to regret engaging, but here it goes. I grew up in the US and lived there until I was 26, then moved to Canada (I'm 38 now.) Compared to the US system the Canadian system is absolute trash and it's a classic example of getting what you pay for.

My 7 year old son had to wait a year and a half to see a pediatrician because they barely have any, and when I finally got to see him, my wife and I were rushed out in less than 15 minutes with no resolution because there were too many people to see. We don't live out in the boonies, we're in a fairly populated area with what's considered decent healthcare coverage. One of my friends had to wait almost 2 years for an MRI and 3 years before seeing a Gastroenterologist. By the time she got the call, she'd forgotten that she even got the referral. Many people don't have 'family doctors' because there simply aren't enough, so they must go to a local 'free clinic' where they will (eventually) be seen by a doctor who doesn't know them and will rush them out as quickly as possible.

Compare that to my parents, still living in the US with fairly standard lower middle class insurance. My mom recently died of breast cancer, but the level of care she received for years was astonishing for my Canadian wife to see. Even for me after being used to the Canadian system. My dad was able to get a dermatologist appointment within weeks where it would take up to 6 months or more here and they shuffle you out in less than half an hour. I should note that my dad (a died-in wool progressive who regularly marches in rallies and canvasses for the democrats) was so appalled by the Canadian system that he did a complete 180 on supporting government healthcare. If you have experienced both systems, it's almost impossible to want to go with government-controlled healthcare.

I'll also note that dentists, optometrists, and pharmaceuticals are not covered up here like many Americans think we are, and we need health insurance for them on top of the high taxes we pay for 'universal wait times.'

No. it's sad but somewhat true. The issue in the United States is coverage, not quality. If your on private insurance in the United States the quality and wait time is miles ahead of the Canadian system, and in the Canadian health care system you have no self determination over your own health care.

Take a gastroenteritis, if you not showing critical symptoms (blood in the stool) it can take up to 3 to 5 months to get in. If you have SIBO but the gastro doesn't believe in it, and won't put you on antibiotics, all you can do is ask for another referral and keep your fingers crossed, unless you want to spend a large sum for one of the few private operating clinics in the major cities. In the States you can pay to get a colonoscopy done and the insurance will cover a large portion of it. In Canada your looking at a $3000 grand bill minimium to go private. In the United States, you can research and take your pick of numerous gastro's to find the one who may be an expert on identifying specific bad gut bacteria, in Canada your stuck with who you get, and unfortunately the top specialists usually go to work in the States. Wait times were not bad when I was growing up, but with the current rate of immigration, apparently there has been 140% increase in wait times compared to the late 80's early 90's. I know a lot of people who've flown down to the US and were amazed with the quality and technology.

When your in your 20's (generally speaking probably, left wing and idealist like I was), the Canadian health care service seems great, but once you get older and start having problems, you'll wish you had private insurance. That being said I wouldn't advocate for either system, but it's the one thing I don't like about Bernie, and I would definetely say the old neo conservative motto of a "liberal mugged by reality" applies to my experience in this case.

[PaulBullion]

There seems to be a real likelihood that more Republicans will contract covid-19 than Democrats, if we go by how seriously their leaders are taking the risk.


Here is an exchange between the dumbass GOP lieutenant governor of Florida, and the Democratic governor of Colorado:



Here is the dumbass GOP governor of Oklahoma:




Here is his Democratic counterpart from Illinois:



So. If there truly is anyone here who cannot bring himself to vote for Joe Biden for some reason the rest of us will never comprehend: Vote anyway, do it via mail, and vote Blue down ticket in every single race. We need to get rid of those people who will kill us all.

[PaulBullion]

Japan confirms first case of person re-infected with coronavirus

The article is using "reinfection" but the quoted official treated it as a flare-up of an existing infection that was only seemingly gone (like getting shingles after having chicken pox years earlier, maybe.).

If it's true reinfection, and not all people develop immunity from having the virus once, this would be very serious. And it would also mean that the UK's very controversial strategy of letting "herd immunity" build up is completely irresponsible.

[Steel Inquisitor]

Warren was leading in the polls until she revealed her silly "two stage" implementation of Medicare for All.

Which is about details, which inevitably make people nervous. It wasn't silly, either. You're mistaken if you assume Sanders plan was ever going to get through congress intact with no changes.

Voters hate taxes but they also hate paying health insurance premiums, in fact most people just tend to hate having to pay for stuff yet somehow we manage to still have an economy. It is indisputable that the overall cost of Medicare for All will be lower than that of our disastrous current system, let's at least get a candidate that can get that message across.

Burying the lede about why that is. It's not solely about cost it's getting politicians to vote for it and their constituents to accept that - how that cost is made can be crucial in how this happens. This is about governing, not messaging. Sanders is terrible at messaging for anyone that isn't in his group, and you're trying to tell me he can do a better job? No.

And yeah, governing IS hard, because it sometimes requires you to take tough stances and draw a line in the sand, rather than just trying to pat each other on the back and yuk it up like old buddies the way that Biden seems to want to do. America loves winners, and the left is losing because we keep ceding ground even when we have more leverage.

You can take tough stances, but there are limits or it'll create backlash. Don't imply compromise and deal making are inherently corrupt, it's how this goes. Without that Sanders has nothing.

The left aren't good at winning since they are bad at messaging, with Sanders anyway.

If we were to put Medicare for All up to a national referendum it would pass easily, so why spend so much time worrying about the sensibilities of senators who don't have the best interests of their constituents at heart? Why not elect a president that will use the bully pulpit the way it was intended, to whip those unruly politicians in line and get everybody to unite behind a policy that will help the people of this country?

Referendums occurs state wide, not nationally. This isn't the UK. Medicare For All can mean many things, too. That's how congress works and I think you know that, I don't appreciate you creating a narrative that how the government functions in America is entirely bankrupt and corrupt. Except many constituents don't like Medicare For All, that's why they're in office - it's cause and effect.

The bully pulpit has its limits, and Sanders ins't someone like Obama who can utilise it like that. Obama had trouble using it, too.