All purpose news and politics thread part v: The quickening

[Superbat]

Currently what proof do we have that anything did happen? The word of one guy? Anything solid or just that?

It's not something he needed to lie about. He said it in a conversation.

It's not like he started saying it after people went after Bernie for getting the endorsement.

[Superbat]

So you're arguing that LGBT and African-Americans (and other minorities and individuals) only want to discuss this because Sanders is involved.

Don't put words in my mouth.

I'm saying people in this thread wouldn't give this that much attention if it wasn't Bernie. That's something that can clearly be seen by what's posted here and what's not.

There have been stories by LGBTQ people, African-Americans, and other minorities about the other candidates but they don't get posted here.

Yesterday Antia Hill said it's too late for an apology from Joe Biden. Did you post about that? Did anyone here talk about that at all?

When someone brought up Warren's treatment of the Native American community, people here made excuses for it. Not a single person posted anything from any of the Native Americans that wrote about what Warren did wrong.

That is what I'm talking about. If it isn't Bernie, sweeping everything under the rug is just fine.

[aja_christopher]

Don't put words in my mouth.

I'm saying people in this thread wouldn't give this that much attention if it wasn't Bernie.

And that's something I disagree with, so we can just agree to disagree.

It's likewise safe to say the other candidates would likely know better but Sanders wants those votes, so (like Trump) he'll do what he has to do to get them.

[zinderel]

You are dodging the question.

Will you vote for Bernie if he's the nominee?

1: I don’t owe you a damn thing. Especially if you can’t be bothered to actually pay attention in a forum In which you insist on taking part.

2: I addressed that VERY SUBJECT today, in more than one post. And have repeatedly addressed it over the several years I have been posting here. If looking back and educating yourself on the topics being discussed today is too much for you, maybe this is the wrong forum for you.

3: I have yet to see a post by you that doesn’t fall squarely into the category of Bernie Bro, and my tolerance for childish nonsense disguised as debate is pretty thin. Either participate fully in the forum as intended, or find yourself ignored. *shrug* For my own sanity, that’s gonna just have to be my policy going forward. Act cultish, get ignored.

It isn’t my job to prepare you to discuss things with adults as if you yourself were one. Sorry, not sorry.

[Theleviathan]

Personally, I think food, education, prison and medicine should be non-profit industries. Period. The systems we have in place for each are horrifying, traumatizing and/or dehumanizing for most people forced to participate in them. But that said, I haven’t seen any actual solutions to the issues of ‘how do we pay for it’ and ‘will it work’.

I mean, we pay for it by taxing the rich, actually enforcing tax law on corporations instead of giving them kickbacks they don’t need or deserve, and cutting funding to the military. Those two resource pools are so enormous that dipping into them is a no-brainer. But the reality is, the rich will lean on the politicians they own and those taxes will end up falling on us instead, and military cuts would end up coming from the VA or military wages/benefits and not from the corporate welfare that we spend on the military industrial complex. So until we get some hard facts and an outline on how it’ll work, it’s a pipe dream.

Taxing the rich isn't an unlimited pot, many of the wealth taxes implemented around the world have fallen short of projections. Almost all of them have been repealed too. I believe it's the right thing to do morally and a step towards a more progressive system, but I don't bank on any of the revenue windfalls. I think most of the policies will be paid by deficit spending. (That isn't to say they shouldn't happen, they need to)

On college, you often hear the Bernie or Warren folks talk about how "other countries do it" yet they don't mention that those other countries have significant differences from our system beyond the cost. 50 years ago, prior to the student loan program that essentially turned into a slush fund, we were much more similar. Trade schools and apprenticeships were more common. Schools were less for-profit driven. Now? Colleges are essentially corporations. They bleed people dry and fatten their wallets. They are as much about sports as education. They have lowered their requirements for entrance. They have exploited a well-meaning (but horribly implemented) student loan program. We drive all kids, of all talents and abilities, towards college. You make it free and what's the difference between college and High School 2?

Other countries steer students from a young age towards trades and apprenticeships and not college. They don't sell the idea that college is for everyone. Their universities are not for-profit or quasi-corporations. Every time I hear "Free college" I think "Corporate Welfare" because NONE of the plans, including Bernie's or Warren's, have any of the other necessary regulation and changes necessary to make that system anything but. If we want to fix college we squeeze those greedy f*cks by making community colleges and trade schools free and regulate the **** out of all of them about every dollar they spend. We break the mentality that college is for everyone. Until then...corporate welfare for all intents and purposes. (And I didn't even mention the quality of the education being crap and the need for work places to re-educate workers. Or the problem with flooding the job market with 70% BA degrees and thus rendering the degrees less meaningful. Already a problem BTW. And a host of other issues)

[Superbat]

1: I don’t owe you a damn thing. Especially if you can’t be bothered to actually pay attention in a forum In which you insist on taking part.

2: I addressed that VERY SUBJECT today, in more than one post. And have repeatedly addressed it over the several years I have been posting here. If looking back and educating yourself on the topics being discussed today is too much for you, maybe this is the wrong forum for you.

3: I have yet to see a post by you that doesn’t fall squarely into the category of Bernie Bro, and my tolerance for childish nonsense disguised as debate is pretty thin. Either participate fully in the forum as intended, or find yourself ignored. *shrug* It isn’t my job to prepare you to discuss things with adults as if you yourself were one. Sorry, not sorry.

You could have said yes and kept that post shorter but you didn't and you didn't even answer the question.

I hope you live in a blue state. It would be bad if you didn't vote for Bernie in a swing state.

[Superbat]

"Kamala Harris considering endorsing Joe Biden for president, source says"

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/01/24/p...den/index.html

Harris's biggest moment when running was tearing into Biden in the 1st debate. It'll be sad if she endorses him now, instead of Warren.

[numberthirty]

Currently what proof do we have that anything did happen? The word of one guy? Anything solid or just that?

Yang was on the guy's show.

It doesn't exactly seem outlandish that others might have tried to get on as well.

Not a lock, but it's not exactly a "Far Out..." sort of a scenario.

[zinderel]

Taxing the rich isn't an unlimited pot, many of the wealth taxes implemented around the world have fallen short of projections. Almost all of them have been repealed too. I believe it's the right thing to do morally and a step towards a more progressive system, but I don't bank on any of the revenue windfalls. I think most of the policies will be paid by deficit spending. (That isn't to say they shouldn't happen, they need to)

On college, you often hear the Bernie or Warren folks talk about how "other countries do it" yet they don't mention that those other countries have significant differences from our system beyond the cost. 50 years ago, prior to the student loan program that essentially turned into a slush fund, we were much more similar. Trade schools and apprenticeships were more common. Schools were less for-profit driven. Now? Colleges are essentially corporations. They bleed people dry and fatten their wallets. They are as much about sports as education. They have lowered their requirements for entrance. They have exploited a well-meaning (but horribly implemented) student loan program. We drive all kids, of all talents and abilities, towards college. You make it free and what's the difference between college and High School 2?

Other countries steer students from a young age towards trades and apprenticeships and not college. They don't sell the idea that college is for everyone. Their universities are not for-profit or quasi-corporations. Every time I hear "Free college" I think "Corporate Welfare" because NONE of the plans, including Bernie's or Warren's, have any of the other necessary regulation and changes necessary to make that system anything but. If we want to fix college we squeeze those greedy f*cks by making community colleges and trade schools free and regulate the **** out of all of them about every dollar they spend. We break the mentality that college is for everyone. Until then...corporate welfare for all intents and purposes. (And I didn't even mention the quality of the education being crap and the need for work places to re-educate workers. Or the problem with flooding the job market with 70% BA degrees and thus rendering the degrees less meaningful. Already a problem BTW. And a host of other issues)

Oh, for sure. Taxation of the wealthy isn’t the end goal. But it’ll ABSOLUTELY help balance out a lot of the financial imbalance in the country and provide funds for important programs that are otherwise going to languish into extinction. Taxing the rich is how we got our highway system and school and most of our infrastructure, and letting them get away with not paying their fair share for so long has led to those things that once were a sign of America’s devotion to progress falling apart, becoming death traps, or failing the communities they were created to serve. Communities that ‘don’t matter’ because they aren’t wealthy (and white).

As to school, again, I agree completely. Trade schools and apprenticeships got shafted by the push that only a college degree makes you worth anything. That elitist nonsense is a big part of why we’re where we are. That said, if education wasn’t for profit, a college degree would be less of an ‘elite’ thing, which can only be good. But yes, a renewed, not-for-profit focus on necessary trade skills would be nice and would better prepare people for life.

[zinderel]

You could have said yes and kept that post shorter but you didn't and you didn't even answer the question.

I hope you live in a blue state. It would be bad if you didn't vote for Bernie in a swing state.

Grow up, kid.

[aja_christopher]

"Kamala Harris considering endorsing Joe Biden for president, source says"

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/01/24/p...den/index.html

Harris's biggest moment when running was tearing into Biden in the 1st debate. It'll be sad if she endorses him now, instead of Warren.

Many people -- especially politicians -- can debate people and disagree with their policies without making enemies of them.

From a political standpoint, it's a good move for her to actually back the person (and policies) she wants to see win, especially given the potential VP option.

[Superbat]

Grow up, kid.

You don't have to answer if you don't want to but you don't have to insult me. You can not reply.

[Superbat]

Many people -- especially politicians -- can debate people and disagree with their policies without making enemies of them.

They aren't enemies but she doesn't have to endorse the candidate she wasn't hardest on.

This is like if Gabbard dropped out before Harris and endorsed her.

[Theleviathan]

Oh, for sure. Taxation of the wealthy isn’t the end goal. But it’ll ABSOLUTELY help balance out a lot of the financial imbalance in the country and provide funds for important programs that are otherwise going to languish into extinction. Taxing the rich is how we got our highway system and school and most of our infrastructure, and letting them get away with not paying their fair share for so long has led to those things that once were a sign of America’s devotion to progress falling apart, becoming death traps, or failing the communities they were created to serve. Communities that ‘don’t matter’ because they aren’t wealthy (and white).

As to school, again, I agree completely. Trade schools and apprenticeships got shafted by the push that only a college degree makes you worth anything. That elitist nonsense is a big part of why we’re where we are. That said, if education wasn’t for profit, a college degree would be less of an ‘elite’ thing, which can only be good. But yes, a renewed, not-for-profit focus on necessary trade skills would be nice and would better prepare people for life.

Yeah, I'm for wealth taxes and adjustments not because of expectations of funding, but to balance things the hell out. My personal belief is that a good economic policy approach involves balance. When we are too far left with economic policies, sometimes going towards the right is good. Right now we're swung WAY to the right.

I can't sign on to any Free College plan that doesn't start with heavy regulation. I feel we do have to right the wrongs of the student loan slush funds, but we can't double down on that mistake by making another one. Too often, for me, progressive policies have their heart in all the right places but they could use a little....I don't know....moderation? To help them be effective rather than unintended, well-meaning catastrophes.

[numberthirty]

They aren't enemies but she doesn't have to endorse the candidate she wasn't hardest on.

This is like if Gabbard dropped out before Harris and endorsed her.

Not really.

It would just be another example of Harris being about her career more than actual public service.

Anything but a shocker.