All purpose news and politics thread part v: The quickening

[Zelena]

So how do we get the numbers down?

Italy, Spain and China have implemented hard lockdowns.

[WestPhillyPunisher]

The bulk of the supposed blowback against Joe Biden regarding women is going to be forgotten the minute he picks a female VP candidate and Trump goes on a sexist tirade, only to have Biden respond, "She doesn't need me to defend her, but it's the honorable thing to do. You're a piece of garbage for having said that."

If Biden chooses Warren, expect him to put a foot in Trump's ass if he starts calling her a racial slur (again) and won't stand for it. That's going to look real sympathetic to independent female voters, and a hell of a lot better than "Grab 'Em By the *****" ogre, and all his issues with women.

And whatever woman Biden picks as a VP... Trump will not be able to resist attacking her. Whether it's Kamala, Stacey Abrams, Warren, Klobuchar... he's going to blunder into a sexist attack, whether he makes it himself, or retweets a "joke".

This. Considering Trump treats women as objects instead of people will make your scenario all the more likely. No matter how hard his henchmen insist Trump lay off misogynistic attacks, he won't be able to help himself, hell, he'd be more likely to launch attacks because he won't like anyone telling him what to do. And, of course, neither "Be Best" Melania or Ivanka will say **** or try to stop him, making them first class hypocrites, something we already knew.

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The Coronavirus Pandemic Could Force Half A Billion People Into Poverty

Economic calamities spurred by the health crisis could erase decades of progress in raising standards of living.

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Oversight Panel: Trump Admin. Didn’t Distribute Stockpile Supplies Based On States’ Needs

Trump health officials said that 3.5 billion N95 masks were needed to respond to this epidemic but only .33% of that number was distributed to states. Didn't distribute, or wouldn't?

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Black People Are Dying Of COVID-19 At Alarming Rates. Here’s Why.

Persistent inequities exacerbate the impact of coronavirus.

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Louisiana Pastor: ‘True Christians Do Not Mind Dying’ Of Coronavirus If Infected At Church

Rev. Tony Spell, who already faces charges for ignoring his state’s ban on public gatherings, bused people in for Palm Sunday services. The mind absolutely boggles at this craziness.

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Dr. Deborah Birx Sees ‘Some Flattening’ Of The Curve, But Warns Against Complacency

In New York and New Jersey, the curve of infections appears to be “stabilizing,” according to the White House coronavirus response coordinator.

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Bill O’Reilly: Dead Coronavirus Victims ‘Were On Their Last Legs Anyway’

The former Fox News host resurfaces with the worst possible take on the COVID-19 pandemic. As much as I hate Trump, O'Reilly is right up there with that horrific take.

[aja_christopher]

I think you have to put yourself in their perspective. Right before Super Tuesday (like literally a few days before)

-Sanders was up in every poll and set to have a big night
-Biden was struggling with a divided moderate camp.
-Buttigieg won a state and was a close second in another (aka he really had a claim to being the default moderate pick of Biden stumbled)
-Klobuchar was poised to win her state and had a few good showings
-Warren underperformed at nearly every level, was doing worse I’m each contests, did terrible in a border state to hers, and was poised to lose her own state.

Then black people finally got to vote in large numbers (South Carolina), Sanders lost his lead and never recovered, and Sanders supporters started claiming that black people are the "establishment" instead of simply acknowledging that Democratic candidates can't win without strong African-American support.

Knight still blows off the votes of "minorities" in his quest to support "progressive" politics -- only showing concern when they serve his purposes.

Now the quest is to argue that Biden is a worse candidate than Sanders, despite Sanders consistenly losing primary elections by landslide numbers.

[Steel Inquisitor]

Then black people finally got to vote in large numbers (South Carolina), Sanders lost his lead and never recovered, and Sanders supporters started claiming that black people are the "establishment" instead of simply acknowledging that Democratic candidates can't win without strong African-American support.

Sanders didn't bother trying to appeal to older Black voters, for someone who was in marches with Martin Luther King it's mind boggling why he skipped out on the Selma anniversary. Bloomberg knew to show up to that, and he's Bloomberg.

[aja_christopher]

Sanders didn't bother trying to appeal to older Black voters, for someone who was in marches with Martin Luther King it's mind boggling why he skipped out on the Selma anniversary. Bloomberg knew to show up to that, and he's Bloomberg.

The obvious answer is because he wasn't that concerned about it.

Many of his voters didn't show up for him either -- apparently he leads by example.

[Mister Mets]

Warren would now be my first choice for VP. Going with cold emotionless logic for a second here and just thinking about what Biden needs the most. The primaries showed that he still has very strong support with black voters and if Obama campaigns for him, that will make support even stronger. Hispanics in the West (mostly Mexican Americans) really got behind Bernie, but there’s no way they vote for Trump. Obviously choosing a woman as VP will increase his popularity with female voters (Trump is already doing poorly with them anyways). Biden generally does well with older voters and I think he is still doing ok with mid western white voters. So the thing be truly lacks is support from the progressive wing of the party. Despite the dust ups with Bernie and his supporters, Warren still has a lot of progressive cred.

Just from personal experience, me and my more liberal friends and family aren’t excited about Biden but will definitely vote for him because he’s not Trump. If Warren was on the ticket it would create some excitement for the ticket.

Cold logic probably doesn't suggest Warren would be a good choice.

In the primaries, she did well with with a particular group: highly educated white people. This led to a sense among many of her supporters that something was amiss: How did she evaporate from the top tier of contention, especially since so many of the people they know also like her?

https://www.vox.com/2020/3/3/2116252...izabeth-warren

The explanation is that the people educated white left-leaning people regularly interact with are disproportionately likely to be educated white left-leaning people and ultimately a small subset of the population. It's not enough to come close in the primary, and they're not really a swing group in the general election.

Sure. But it was the same thing as if Warren had dropped out and endorsed Sanders. That didn’t happen, but, if it had, it isn’t like they would’ve said it was “dirty politics”. It sucks when the wing fighting against you coalesces to defeat you. I get that, but it just turned out this way this time when a progressive ran against the former Vice President of the most popular recent president and politician in the party. It was also an uphill battle to defeat Biden, just as it was to defeat H.W. Bush for the Republican nomination in 1988. But I think that it will be a more wide open field without a clear establishment favorite in 2024. And that will make for an interesting contest.

If Biden wins, his running mate will be the first female Vice President. She'll probably be more of an establishment favorite than he was as a former Vice President in his late seventies.

There may be a different primary map if Biden's Vice President isn't African-American, as that leaves an opening in the South Carolina primary.

[WestPhillyPunisher]

The obvious answer is because he wasn't that concerned about it.

Many of his voters didn't show up for him either -- apparently he leads by example.

And therein was the problem for Sanders. For all the fervent, sometimes rabid support from his base, the fact those people apparently couldn't have been bothered to vote for Bernie says they were all talk and no action. And now with Sanders having bowed out, those followers will whine and bitch about how bad Biden is, how he's a lapdog for the Democratic establishment and how he'll be routed in the election by Trump, yadda yadda yadda. That said, I had no problem (well, not much of one) with Sanders and would've voted for him in November if he were the candidate, it's those fair weather supporters who wear on my patience.

[aja_christopher]

And therein was the problem for Sanders. For all the fervent, sometimes rabid support from his base, the fact those people apparently couldn't have been bothered to vote for Bernie says they were all talk and no action. And now with Sanders having bowed out, those followers will whine and bitch about how bad Biden is, how he's a lapdog for the Democratic establishment and he'll be routed in the election by Trump, yadda yadda yadda. That said, I had no problem (well, not much of one) with Sanders and would've voted for him in November if he were the candidate, it's those fair weather supporters who wear on my patience.

Nearly everyone here on the "left" and in the "center" has said that they would vote for Sanders as their non first-choice nominee.

There's only one candidate's supporters who seem to think their personal politics are worth allowing Trump to have a second term in office.

[Tendrin]

I keep seeing a lot of the same people who told me that Sanders was going to crush the Democrats, that they were gonna have to 'bend the knee' to him, and that the establishment was done and that Biden was done for, now telling me with absolute certainty that Biden WILL lose to Trump.

I'm not exactly sure why I should trust their political judgment.

Then again, these are the same people who think moderate candidates with no viable path dropping out to endorse another moderate somehow amounts to 'rigging'.

[WestPhillyPunisher]

I keep seeing a lot of the same people who told me that Sanders was going to crush the Democrats, that they were gonna have to 'bend the knee' to him, and that the establishment was done and that Biden was done for, now telling me with absolute certainty that Biden WILL lose to Trump.

I'm not exactly sure why I should trust their political judgment.

Then again, these are the same people who think moderate candidates with no viable path dropping out to endorse another moderate somehow amounts to 'rigging'.

I like to think not all of Sanders' followers are foam at the mouth, bay at the moon zealots like that lot, but it's damn hard not to paint them all with the same broad brush when they spew such repugnant nonsense. I've seen on Twitter that those same zealots have been brutally slamming civil rights icon John Lewis after he declared his support for Joe Biden a few days ago, it's like anyone who doesn't prostrate themselves before Sanders are either sellouts or the enemy of the progressive cause. In a way, those zealots are like Trump's toxic followers, two sides of the same coin.

[Tendrin]

I like to think not all of Sanders' followers are foam at the mouth, bay at the moon zealots like that lot, but it's damn hard not to paint them all with the same broad brush when they spew such repugnant nonsense. I've seen on Twitter that those same zealots have been brutally slamming civil rights icon John Lewis after he declared his support for Joe Biden a few days ago, it's like anyone who doesn't prostrate themselves before Sanders are either sellouts or the enemy of the progressive cause. In a way, those zealots are like Trump's toxic followers, two sides of the same coin.

Really, a lot aren't.

A lot are genuinely good people and I'm friends with them. I think Bernie's campaign was badly, badly run and a lot of these people did him a disservice.

[WestPhillyPunisher]

Really, a lot aren't.

A lot are genuinely good people and I'm friends with them. I think Bernie's campaign was badly, badly run and a lot of these people did him a disservice.

Which brings up a problem I've had with Sanders for years, that being his inability, or unwillingness to bring those recalcitrant followers to heel and make them behave like responsible adults. Was that an unreachable goal? Perhaps, but, at the very least, Sanders should've put his foot down long ago and told those zealots to cool it with their toxicity.

[Tendrin]

Which brings up a problem I've had with Sanders for years, that being his inability, or unwillingness to bring those recalcitrant followers to heel and make them behave like responsible adults. Was that an unreachable goal? Perhaps, but, at the very least, Sanders should've put his foot down long ago and told those zealots to cool it with their toxicity.

One of the reasons I question Sanders' judgment is exactly because he hired and empowered folks like Brianna Grey, Nina Turner, and David Sirota... all of whom pretty clearly did a *terrible* job.

[aja_christopher]

I like to think not all of Sanders' followers are foam at the mouth, bay at the moon zealots like that lot, but it's damn hard not to paint them all with the same broad brush when they spew such repugnant nonsense. I've seen on Twitter that those same zealots have been brutally slamming civil rights icon John Lewis after he declared his support for Joe Biden a few days ago, it's like anyone who doesn't prostrate themselves before Sanders are either sellouts or the enemy of the progressive cause. In a way, those zealots are like Trump's toxic followers, two sides of the same coin.

It's fair to point out that some of this could be disinformation -- an attempt by outsiders to cause chaos and interfere with our democratic process.

Not to say all of them as we've dealt with many of them here firsthand -- but enough to cause problems going into the general election.

Even when you acknowledge the positive things Sanders brings to the table -- as Biden repeatedly has -- they still try to claim that you "hate" them. That shows they aren't interested in a rational dialogue and instead feel that their "victimization" justifies any sort of terrible behavior they enact on others, whether it's Clinton, Beto, Harris, Warren, Bloomberg, Biden (etc) or their supporters.

It would make a lot more sense to just accept the loss and plan how best to move forward in the future -- protecting the Supreme Court seats should be a priority in that respect. Vote Biden into office and then support any progressive gains made by Biden during his presidency by voting in the midterms as well so Republicans don't just roll back any and all "progress". Elect more progressive candidates nationwide so they can pass progressive legislature in Congress. Set up for the future by building on the foundation of what has already been built instead of trying to tear everything down just because your chosen candidate and political ideology didn't win the nomination.

That's how it's done -- they want all of the perks of victory but don't want to put in the real work to make it happen.

[PaulBullion]

My only point is if you sit out this election, you don't get to complain about Trump when he gets reelected.

He will just continue to complain about Democrats, especially female Democrats.