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  1. #9196
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    TBH I can understand Kyer's reasoning. It's a combo of unfortunate experiences, personal tragedy under a democratic leader typing to make healthcare cheaper, and since the planet hasn't burned down despite all the warnings it must be fake news that it is. She even has the built in excuse of corona ready if the economy fails. I disagree with her conclusions. But I perfectly understand how she got to them.
    Last edited by Farealmer; 02-21-2020 at 09:03 AM.

  2. #9197
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheManInBlack View Post
    It really does. Left wing people spend inordinate amounts of time shouting about how minority voices are important and need to be listened to. Except, apparently, when they have the wrong opinions and need to be shouted down and mocked. Then, all of a sudden, their lived experience doesn't matter because it's suddenly inconvenient to the narrative. And I'm a minority too, so feel free to take as many notes as you want, love.
    Do you feel being a minority and/or female should give someone's opinion protected status? If you are saying things like "you're going to lose again in 2020" i presume then you are not a liberal. Do you feel that minority and/or female opinions are more cherished on the conservative side of things when it doesn't match conservative opinions?

  3. #9198

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    Quote Originally Posted by PaulBullion View Post
    Second day of massive DJI losses as the markets worry about Elizabeth Warren having become the de facto front runner in the Democratic primaries.
    But the president keeps telling us the economy is better than its ever been.

    HOW DIS POSSIBLE?
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  4. #9199
    Old school comic book fan WestPhillyPunisher's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Farealmer View Post
    TBH I can understand Kyer's reasoning. It's a combo of unfortunate experiences, personal tragedy under a democratic leader typing to make healthcare cheaper, and since the planet hasn't burned down despite all the warnings it must be fake news that it is. She even has the built in excuse of corona ready if the economy fails. I disagree with her conclusions. But I perfectly understand how she got to them.
    Her conclusions makes her sound like a loon. I'm sorry if that sounds harsh, but that was how I interpreted her rant.
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  5. #9200

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    To anyone who doesn't register that Donald Trump is a racist:

    The first time Donald Trump's name appeared in a newspaper, it was because he and his father were being accused of racial discrimination... by the Nixon administration.

    If THAT administration thought you were racist, you were pretty friggin' racist.

    And no, he hasn't gotten better. Mexicans are rapists, telling Congresswomen of color to "GO BACK TO WHERE THEY CAME FROM...", his comments about not wanting African American accountants, but wanting Jewish people counting his money, etc. etc. etc.

    There is not a shadow of a doubt. And that's before you even consider he has literal white nationalists working in his White House.

    So... thanks for playing.
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  6. #9201
    Extraordinary Member PaulBullion's Avatar
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  7. #9202
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    Quote Originally Posted by WestPhillyPunisher View Post
    Her conclusions makes her sound like a loon. I'm sorry if that sounds harsh, but that was how I interpreted her rant.
    That's a bit unfair. She was asked to explain why she supported Donny and gave a detailed answer. Her reasoning being flawed is a separate thing.

  8. #9203
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    Quote Originally Posted by PaulBullion View Post
    She really should have shown this side the entire campaign. Democrats desperately want to see that fight and someone who will call trump out on his bs. And the way she was going after everyone on the stage masterfully it was readily apparent she could do the same if Trump tried her.

    Like I said the other night. Modifying her Healthcare views to be more open to a transition from Obamacare to a Medicare for All type system allows moderate Democrats who are desperately needed in terms of the votes from their Senators in Red states to sell it. It's much more likely to get the votes needed than a rigid approach Sanders has shown. The reality is while I agree with him Healthcare should be a right, and he has a point that is often buried and obscured that the costs associated and additional taxes are offset by the savings you would get by lower drug costs and premiums from insurance companies.

    But, people by and large must be sold on these things over and over and in depth. No one enjoys paying taxes period. So its easy for opposition to just hammer home the he wants to raise taxes on everyone, hes a socialist! And honestly outside his supporters it isn't fought back enough to define himself rather than BE defined.

    Warren I think does better here. But, she has to have Bernie's supporters and its probably too late.

  9. #9204
    Ultimate Member Gray Lensman's Avatar
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    I'm going to try and engage this rather than mock, but I still see a lot of things I question in this post. Here goes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kyer View Post
    Sorry for delay. Lots of stuff going on at homefront.

    Of course I like the improved economy situation even if my own age/lack of marketable skills situation makes me still in a tight spot. I'd rather my neighbors be rich rather than poor. Poverty can make for a worsened crime rate. Doom and gloom? I lived in the Los Angeles basin for decades. Lots of Hispanics. The area got worse with every influx of more: homes previously cared for by a mixed population falling apart because the new people either didn't care or know how or could afford to keep up the neighborhood. Democrats made this much worse when they made the sub-prime rate fiasco which saw way more people borrowing for a house who in no way could maintain that house! Homes with pools were even worse. Clouds of mosquitoes started breeding in neglected pools. Drug trafficking soared. It got so miserable in just a decade under a Democrat that dad packed up the entire family and we moved out of state to a Republican one.
    The sub-prime rate fiasco has a lot of people to blame, but the core of it was business decisions, not the government (of either party). https://www.thebalance.com/what-caus...crisis-3305696

    Trump is pro-military and by that I mean a military that is there to protect us rather than to subjugate us. Had several relatives and my own dad serve. It was not a fun time for the family for much the same reasons the families of police and fire fighters have a harder time coping: you live in a background state of constant dread. In all my years in California I never had an issue with the police. Nor did any of my relatives (save for the ones who were thieves ) The biggest interaction was when one drugged-out relative came over brandishing a gun and the police officer that arrived very professionally handled the situation without any shots fired. I have nothing but respect for their profession while also knowing that bad officers exist just like there are bad people in any position...part of the human race.
    I have a hard time understanding how you can believe this, Trump has stated publically that he thinks he knows more than his generals, and has intervened in military prosecutions (the person's entire squad testified against him for crying out loud), and insisted upon prosecution for the officer who testified before congress when subpoenaed. That doesn't exactly sound pro-military to me. Maybe the veneer of it, but that's about all I can see.

    Democrats keep telling me Trump is racist. Honestly, I've looked and can't find any basis for this other than the accusations themselves.
    Listen to the way Trump describes black critics as opposed to white ones, the language is quite different. Plus he hires some very racist people - let's start with Steven Miller, who, when outsiders got ahold of a pile of his emails, could not find one instance of him speaking in good, or even neutral terms about anyone non-white or foreign born. That's pretty much a dictionary definition of racism.
    As stated above, Democrats keep telling me I'll suffer financially from Republicans. Yet my family has suffered primarily from either Democrat 'nanny' policies and from Republican Rhinos. (By the way, I don't think of myself as a Republican. I would vote Libertarian if only the Libertarian Party would actually get a libertarian-minded candidate. )
    The economy actually improves more under Democrats - I was surprised when I looked it up myself, but it's true. In addition, wages (likely the share most people on this board care about) go up even faster than the general economy when Democrats are in charge.

    I believe that life is something to be treasured as part of God's personality (Creator) so am horrified by the practices of abortionists for the same reason I'm horrified by any murder. Trump is pro-life while the Democratic Party seems hell-bent on making me pay for what I consider outright murder.
    For starters, no federal money is allowed to be used for abortion by law. Second, abortion rates are much lower in places with easier access to birth control, and guess what the Republicans always seem to be willing to limit? In my mind, limiting birth control or equating it with abortion is the mask slipping and revealing the truth - that it isn't about life at all, but control. In addition, the uncompromising view they have leads to things like women with a fetus in their fallopian tube are forced to wait several days, be counseled, and watch videos designed to disgust them despite the fact that such a pregnancy is 100% lethal if left untreated, and has zero chance for the child to ever survive. Even late term abortions aren't typically some case of regret (that would be done earlier), but often the case of something horribly wrong being found in the unborn child that can't be detected until then. Including cases where the chances of killing the mother skyrocket, often to bring into the world someone who will never survive long anyways, and with a very short life of nothing but pain. It's bad enough to discover that out of the two most important gifts a mother can give to a child (life and peace), that suddenly you must pick only one. Basically, abortion is a much more complicated issue than people want to make it out to be.
    I believe in the right to arms (2nd Amendment) as a way not only for those not vegan as I am to procure food and protect themselves from criminals if they desire that method, but also to protect all America from a future government that wants to subjugate all of us as has been done in places like Nazi Germany and current China. If the general populace can't protect themselves from a vile turn in their government/military then eventually they are doomed to live under a totalitarian regime. Also, the worst crimes seem to take place in 'gun-free' zones. That rather supports my argument. I never feel more unsafe as when I enter a building that denies my fellows to carry. Its like a market for criminals/psychos.
    First off no one's small arms will stop a government that truly doesn't care how they trample a populace. Tanks and planes are beyond the level of any private militia. Second, one shouldn't equate anything more restrictive than "anyone can have anything" with "take every gun." We can try and find ways to limit all the deaths and killings while still leaving the right to bear arms intact, but current Republican orthodoxy is any limit on guns is too much.
    Trump is anti-climate change hysteria. I've been living under a state of people trying to scare me with nature-caused doomsday scenarios for so long (It's The Coming Great Freeeeeze! Killer Bees! Africa Wiped Out By Aids By 1990! Global Warming!) for so long I've gone meh to it all. Besides, non-politics linked scientists have debunked it. Climate change is seasonal change and changes in Sol that have gone on since it existed. Siberia was once prairie land thousands of years before rudimentary 'civilization', and so forth. Also, the ones who cry climate change are hypocrites with their private jet planes and multiple homes. Give me a break.
    The bolded is an outright lie, the only scientists saying it isn't real anymore are very politically motivated, or tied to fossil fuel industries. The issue right now is the speed at which it is happening, which is unprecedented in history. And I will ask what is more hypocritical, what you describe or publically insisting it's all fake while privately making plans to profit from it?

    Truly the only thing I can think of where I don't like Trump is that he spends too much. This has been epidemic with far too many politicians on both sides of the aisle for far too many years. My family strives to live within their means even if it means luxuries and entertainment are limited. (I buy the occasional comic book but haven't been to a theater or a restaurant since the early 1990's. Video Games? What are video games?) We buy nearly all our clothing from Thrift stores, DIY as much as possible. Keep an Emergency Fund. Just gave up cable TV for an Amazon Firestick for mom in order to feed the cats decent food --with mom's okay since she was pretty much the sole watcher of TV. Only use a credit card when you already have cash on hand put aside to pay off the full amount right away let alone by the due date.) Why can't the governments do this? Live within your means. Borrow only when critically necessary. Give to charity but don't take from it unless there is NO other way so it is available for those who must have it for a time. We were disgusted when the National Debt hit a Trillion. Now it goes up that amount every year. Good lord!
    I can't say much about this except to point out that the deficits go up faster under Republicans than under Democrats, and they have since I was old enough to care about politics (starting under Reagan). Reagan blew the budget, Bush I wasn't as bad, Clinton had a surplus a few times, Dubya went crazy again - with Obama having smaller deficits despite passing new social legislation and starting his presidency in a recession. And under Trump, the deficits have gone crazy again. I wish Republicans actually cared about fiscal responsibility, rather than seeing it as a bludgeon to use when Democrats try to do things, but if wishes were horses beggars would ride.
    "Theory: The Phoenix doesn't corrupt the characters, it corrupts the authors." Gambit, King of Thieves

  10. #9205
    Ultimate Member Gray Lensman's Avatar
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    I also resent being called a racist for not liking Obama. I didn't like Obama because he was black. I could care less. (Star Trek Classic fan who loved the Andorian's blue skin.) I disliked him because he disliked America for its faults as if it only had faults and no virtues. I loathe his Obamacare and how it raised prices and made my dad lose his doctor and cancer medication right when he needed it most. (Because of Obamacare he could not get it for seven months while on it he was getting better. He died just four months later.
    I'm going to presume you meant to say that you didn't DISLIKE Obama because he was black. And that's fine, I thought he was easily played by Putin, although Trump is getting played like a Stradivarius, so things certainly didn't improve on that front. That said, birtherism is 100% racism.

    I can only say that what happened with your father is terrible, to lose someone to the changeover to something that is supposed to help people. But I must ask, by shutting the program down now, how many more people will have to face what you went though?

    Trump has faults. He's no saint. But neither are any of the Democrats (or the Libertarians, or Green Party, or you or me.) I like most of his policies where I really dislike most (all?) Democrat policies. I hate that they are trying to steal back the election (Impeachment) and call me 'despicable' while all the eight years under Obama we were expected to be nice because 'Obama was duly elected so tolerate it.) Expectations of civility with Democrat politicians seem only to exist when they get their way.
    Impeachment isn't stealing an election - even if the Senate had voted to remove Trump, the new President would have been Mike Pence, not Hilary Clinton nor Nancy Pelosi despite what some people may have fantasies (or nightmares) about. Meanwhile, in Nevada a few years ago we had Republicans start recall election petitions for a couple of newly elected Democrats (state legislature) before they were even sworn in. That's right, attempting to change the outcome of the election not based on something they did, but simply for what party they were. Trump had tried to start an investigation (or at least get the announcement of one) against a political rival - that's a trick of autocrats like Putin or Maduro. Had an investigation come up from law enforcement and continued from there I'd have no problem with it. But as it stands that's exactly what the founding fathers were worried about.
    Democrats love socialism/communism to the extent that they want no other. I've lived watching other countries with these kinds of systems and I've listened to the escaped victims of them tell their tales. I've watched modern videos come out of Venezuela and China. Capitalism is not paradise but it is a sight better than anything else out there. Trump is pro-Capitalism. The Democrats are not save for two candidates and look how the others reacted to them the last debate. The Tolerance Party isn't terribly tolerant, is it? Makes me think of early on Hitler and his Brown Shirts shutting down opposite opinions let alone acts before they rose to power.
    Most Democrats are capitalists - even the second most to the left running for president (Warren) identifies as one - there is a shift towards Scandinavian style Social Democracy among the far left in the Democratic Party, but that's a far cry from Venezuelan Chavismo branded Socialism. I can say that if actual socialism ever comes to the United States, it will be because to many people blew off the current political cry of "everything I don't like is Socialism!" as the boy who cried wolf trying to pull yet another fast one. The issue with Capitalism right now is it is leaning more and more into crony capitalism, which basically plays out as socialism for rich people. You second point about shutting down unpopular opinions....what happens to Republicans who go against Trump? Before looking to the splinter in someone else's eye you need to remove the sequoia log from yours.

    As it stands now I'm voting for Trump even if the economy gets worse because if it gets worse it will likely be from either outside factors such as the current virus crisis (created and made worse by a communist country) that no President would have control over.
    The trade war is a big sword of Damocles hanging over the economy right now - and the manufacturing sector has been hardest hit by it. And do you know who won Trump's idiotic trade war? Vietnam, that's who. Now I will say he does have a point, in that China does talk out of both sides of it's mouth on these things, but when trying to do something about that in such an interconnected world it's better to not go it alone. Get other trading partners on our side rather than working against us - the results work better that way.[/quote]

    So, yes, I'm voting for the Orange Man again. The only difference this time is that I'm happily voting for him. The opposite side just looks too darn scary. Acts too darn scary.

    P.S. forgot to mention: TWO, TWO State of the Union addresses where Trump gave statistics of improvement for Hispanics and Blacks. The Democrat side of the aisle was stone faced. Only the Arizona senator clapped. That spoke volumes about the Democratic Party leaders.[/QUOTE]

    At least no one shouted out "You lie!" right as he started talking - but one thing people don't like to hear when talking up Trump is that he inherited an improving economy from his predecessor and has managed (so far) to not screw it up.

    One thing you didn't mention that I will - Trump may have single handedly managed to destroy the value of America's word. By ditching treaties that were being adhered to (I don't want to hear about the non-treaty stuff Iran was up to, we didn't scrap all of our treaties with the USSR when they did stuff not covered by the treaties we didn't like), treating long term allies like enemies and cozying up to dictators who are playing him with his ego fix, it might take decades to fix the damage he has done on the international stage.
    "Theory: The Phoenix doesn't corrupt the characters, it corrupts the authors." Gambit, King of Thieves

  11. #9206
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    Black and Latino Voters Are Looking for ‘More Than Just Some Token Words’

    Interesting article really. About the frustration that minority voters are feeling in being heard. Specifically about their most important issues. And honestly this is the very reason the Democratic Primary process needs a overhaul. More diverse states reflecting the actual electorate should be able to weigh in and vote first I think. By the time minority voters get to be heard and vote, they are left with choices which have spent a lot of time and their initial funds campaigning hard and working to do well in the current early Primaries in Iowa and New Hampshire. And not enough actual time and money spent trying to engage and reach out to the minority vote in the rest of the country.

    Biden for example relies on his "built in support" being Obama's VP for 8 years. Buttigeg and the rest of the field if you look at their finances they cant afford to get out and make the inroads they need with minority voters that don't seem like token "church and picnic stops" It's a real problem in terms of funding to get the ground game and resources needed to engage these voters and get them active involved, and understand them and what you are about and will focus on.

    This is the type of thing that Bloomberg for example can just spend on ads with Obama talking for 400 million so far all over the country. He has the money to advertise himself. But, as we see when he is really vetted on the stage....Warren tore him apart on minority issues.

    We can't take the minority support for granted in all wings of the Democratic party. There should be more minorities in all the campaigns, they should be more engaged and more town halls and visits to discuss real policy issues these voters care about. AS their turnout in 2020 will very well define who wins. Obviously Trump isn't going to get a massive shift of minority vote. But, if people are not excited enough or apathetic and stay home he will win anyway. It shouldn't happen it would be shooting yourself in the foot. But, still the parties and candidates need to do better on their end to welcome the support, listen to concerns and even farther develop their actual policies to support the initiatives these voters care about.

  12. #9207
    Mighty Member SquirrelMan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kidfresh512 View Post
    She really should have shown this side the entire campaign. Democrats desperately want to see that fight and someone who will call trump out on his bs. And the way she was going after everyone on the stage masterfully it was readily apparent she could do the same if Trump tried her.
    She was a national debating champion as a teenager.
    But even in the face of her triumph in the last debate, people said she was too angry. It's tough for female candidates.

  13. #9208
    Silver Sentinel BeastieRunner's Avatar
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    Beastie's Cartoons of the Week:



    "Always listen to the crazy scientist with a weird van or armful of blueprints and diagrams." -- Vibranium

  14. #9209
    Old school comic book fan WestPhillyPunisher's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by worstblogever View Post
    To anyone who doesn't register that Donald Trump is a racist:

    The first time Donald Trump's name appeared in a newspaper, it was because he and his father were being accused of racial discrimination... by the Nixon administration.

    If THAT administration thought you were racist, you were pretty friggin' racist.

    And no, he hasn't gotten better. Mexicans are rapists, telling Congresswomen of color to "GO BACK TO WHERE THEY CAME FROM...", his comments about not wanting African American accountants, but wanting Jewish people counting his money, etc. etc. etc.

    There is not a shadow of a doubt. And that's before you even consider he has literal white nationalists working in his White House.

    So... thanks for playing.
    Let's not forget Trump called black NFL players "sons of bitches" for kneeling during the anthem. Oh, yeah, mention the Central Park Five to Dolt45 and he'll readily vomit up his disgusting old rant that they should be put to death. At the point, I'm surprised he hasn't invited the leaders of the KKK to the Oval Office for hamberders and covfefe. I wouldn't put it past him to do that.

    Quote Originally Posted by SquirrelMan View Post
    She was a national debating champion as a teenager.
    But even in the face of her triumph in the last debate, people said she was too angry. It's tough for female candidates.
    If you ask me, Warren should just say "Fuck it!", go into full berserker mode like she had Wednesday night and stay angry for the rest of the campaign. Being a woman, she'll never be given the benefit of the doubt like say, Bernie Sanders who rants and raves with the fury of a million aggrieved old men 24/7, so what does Warren have to lose by following suit?
    Last edited by WestPhillyPunisher; 02-21-2020 at 10:52 AM.
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  15. #9210
    Mighty Member SquirrelMan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BeastieRunner View Post
    Beastie's Cartoons of the Week:

    Ugh,a MAGA talking point.

    The difference is that Roger Stone was doing massive criming, a lot of it out in the open. McCabe may or may not have lied over a rather inconsequential detail, and it would be almost impossible to prove that he did knowingly lie.

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