All purpose news and politics thread part v: The quickening

[Steel Inquisitor]

I predicted that Democrats wouldn't be able to sell an acquittal outcome.

That was blatantly obvious, who thought Trump was going to be convicted?

[KNIGHT OF THE LAKE]

That was blatantly obvious, who thought Trump was going to be convicted?

I didn't care about that. The lack of conviction was irrelevant. Going in you knew that. The question was whether the Democrats could sell the corruption of the Republicans and push a narrative that stuck that Trump did something impeachable and that the obvious corruption is a reason you should vote him out. They lack the savvy to make that argument. That was always my issue.

[KNIGHT OF THE LAKE]

Did you make that prediction before or after Midnight Mitch publicly announced that he’d do all he could to acquit Trump?

Before because I said even back when we were debating about Russia being the impetus for impeachment that there was no chance the Republicans commit. Mitch not giving a shit is another matter entirely.

[Celgress]

Did you make that prediction before or after Midnight Mitch publicly announced that he’d do all he could to acquit Trump?

I made the same prediction even before Trump was impeached or Mitch made his announcement. Here is why -

The Democrats have a talent for snatching defeat from the jaws of victory. They are, more often than not, their own worst enemies.

[kidfresh512]

I didn't care about that. The lack of conviction was irrelevant. Going in you knew that. The question was whether the Democrats could sell the corruption of the Republicans and push a narrative that stuck that Trump did something impeachable and that the obvious corruption is a reason you should vote him out. They lack the savvy to make that argument. That was always my issue.

Trump is selling the corruption himself. This massive out and out revenge campaign is obvious, so blatant and you cant even make excuses really. I mean it takes nothing to see what letting this man walk free has done. ANd to sell that will only get worse and more blatant if hes elected again should be cake.

The problem as it always has been is turnout and does everyone who isn't a trump supporter care enough to vote whoever is against him.

The exit polling so far is clear. They want ANYONE who they think can get trump out. Issues are secondary.

[Steel Inquisitor]

I didn't care about that. The lack of conviction was irrelevant. Going in you knew that. The question was whether the Democrats could sell the corruption of the Republicans and push a narrative that stuck that Trump did something impeachable and that the obvious corruption is a reason you should vote him out. They lack the savvy to make that argument. That was always my issue.

You should, as they're prime material to fall for GOP propaganda to discredit the Democrats. I knew that, I'm talking about people who didn't. This is a weakness for new and independent voters who don't understand the system. They did the absolute best they could, I don't see what they could have done more to get it across. Anyone who didn't get that was never going to believe them. It's not like the Democrats have as much influence with the media as the GOP does.

[Steel Inquisitor]

I made the same prediction even before Trump was impeached or Mitch made his announcement. Here is why -

The Democrats have a talent for snatching defeat from the jaws of victory. They are, more often than not, their own worst enemies.

Trump being acquitted has nothing to do with that, and Demovats losing is not solely about themselves. This dismisses how strong their opposition is and how far they go to win elections, like having FBI Director's breaking the Hatch Act in a crucial time period and hostile foreign countries deliberately interfering.

[KNIGHT OF THE LAKE]

You should, as they're prime material to fall for GOP propaganda to discredit the Democrats. I knew that, I'm talking about people who didn't. This is a weakness for new and independent voters who don't understand the system. They did the absolute best they could, I don't see what they could have done more to get it across. Anyone who didn't get that was never going to believe them. It's not like the Democrats have as much influence with the media as the GOP does.

It doesn't matter. You still have top play the game and win. Democrats have a tendency of rather being right and losing than playing strategically and winning.

You want to make impeachment matter. Impeach him on everything. Ukraine. Russia. Emoluments. The Sexual assault allegations. Drip that shit out all next summer. Then send it all to the Senate sometime in late October and have it be litigated then while he's trying to win an election.

[4saken1]

I didn't care about that. The lack of conviction was irrelevant. Going in you knew that. The question was whether the Democrats could sell the corruption of the Republicans and push a narrative that stuck that Trump did something impeachable and that the obvious corruption is a reason you should vote him out. They lack the savvy to make that argument. That was always my issue.

You don't think that the typical American is an intellectual lazy dumbfuck had anything to do with that? Does the blame fall completely on Democrats? People tend to believe what is easiest and doesn't require them to think much. Hence the wildly popular trope "Both Parties are just as bad!"

[numberthirty]

You don't think that the typical American is an intellectual lazy dumbfuck had anything to do with that? Does the blame fall completely on Democrats?

If you know what is in your first line and are not operating with that reality in mind?

Who else should be getting the blame?

You've got to play the game you sat down at.

[Celgress]

It doesn't matter. You still have to play the game and win. Democrats have a tendency of rather being right and losing than playing strategically and winning....

Exactly, I couldn't have put it better myself.

[Steel Inquisitor]

It doesn't matter. You still have top play the game and win. Democrats have a tendency of rather being right and losing than playing strategically and winning.

Which is what they're doing.

It's worrying you don't seem concerned about new voters not understanding the system being manipulated by Republicans through this. Not letting them get lost down that rabbit hole is covering all their bases. Your ideas would make them more vulnerable to this, not less.

How much the GOP have control over the media matters in elections. Being savvy only gets so far when the media is tilted toward the opposition's favour.

You want to make impeachment matter. Impeach him on everything. Ukraine. Russia. Emoluments. The Sexual assault allegations. Drip that shit out all next summer. Then send it all to the Senate sometime in late October and have it be litigated then while he's trying to win an election.

That won't change anything, all it would do is confuse people. Look what happen with Mueller. In fact, it might provide a narrative for the GOP to latch onto that the Democrats are just desperate and people will fall for it because they have the media in their pocket, and people don't pay attention to those details.

[numberthirty]

Which is what they're doing.

It's worrying you don't seem concerned about new voters not understanding the system being manipulated by Republicans through this. Not letting them get lost down that rabbit hole is covering all their bases. Your ideas would make them more vulnerable to this, not less.

How much the GOP have control over the media matters in elections. Being savvy only gets so far when the media is tilted toward the opposition's favour.


...

A couple of things...

First - If that's the case, why not just throw in the towel by Friday?

Second - If we agree on that not throwing the towel in is the right path, what's next?

While I don't disagree with that some are not just an acceptable loss, the idea that the media should be even the bulk of your focus feels flawed.

Those voters that you mentioned? What are the odds that there is no aspect of the last four years that has failed them in some way?

To me, trying to be out there to make the "Are You Better Off Than You Were Four Years Ago?..." seems like it has the potential to get your foot in the door where trying to contend with the current lay of the media land might not.

That said, you have to be out there doing so.

[PwrdOn]

Elections always tend to be an uphill climb for the left because, generally speaking, we have strong principles that we end up tying ourselves into knots trying to uphold, whereas the right quite openly doesn't have any, but aren't afraid to bring the hammer down on any minor inconsistency we display. Trying to reciprocate won't work, because conservatives don't care about getting caught contradicting themselves. Centrists just combine the worst of both sides, because they don't have any principles and so aren't appealing from a policy standpoint, but at the same time will shy away from fighting dirty and so tend to be pretty ineffective at implementing their agenda also. Obama sure could make some great speeches but ended up getting caught up in legislative quagimres time after time because he wouldn't stake out a strong position and would always give ground too easily even when he had leverage he could apply. Today's centrist candidates have all the wishy washy-ness and none of the charisma, so why should we bother giving them the time of day?

[Celgress]

Wow, this is the second time James Carville has unloaded on Sanders and Sanders' supporters in a week -



Edit - Says "I'm not interested in being in a cult".