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  1. #15586
    Extraordinary Member PaulBullion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KNIGHT OF THE LAKE View Post
    It’s not really a conspiracy. The party consolidated around Biden at that last minute in a pretty clear effort to give the moderate a better shot at winning when it looked like a progressive was going to win.
    Which only worked because the vast majority of Democratic voters wanted a moderate.
    "How does the Green Goblin have anything to do with Herpes?" - The Dying Detective

    Hillary was right!

  2. #15587
    Extraordinary Member PaulBullion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Inquisitor View Post
    Sanders didn't bother trying to appeal to older Black voters, for someone who was in marches with Martin Luther King it's mind boggling why he skipped out on the Selma anniversary. Bloomberg knew to show up to that, and he's Bloomberg.
    Correction: one march.
    "How does the Green Goblin have anything to do with Herpes?" - The Dying Detective

    Hillary was right!

  3. #15588
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    Another example of pointing out that disagreeing with some -- or many -- of Sanders' policies does not mean you hate him.

    ------
    "Coronavirus: Bernie Sanders denounces 'systemic racism' behind huge disparity in African American deaths"

    "Bernie Sanders has denounced the “systemic racism” he claims is responsible for the huge disparity of coronavirus deaths among the African American community.

    Amid growing evidence that people of colour, especially African Americans, make up a disproportionate number of those being infected or killed by the virus, the Democratic hopeful said this was the result of racism embedded in every aspect of society and a “dysfunctional healthcare system”.

    “Some 87 million Americans are uninsured or underinsured, so many of our people can’t afford to go to the doctor. You are aware that we have a housing crisis, and people who are homeless all over this country. People are packed into homes and apartments, where there’s just not a whole lot of room,” he said in a ******streamed town hall-style conversation.

    Reports by organisations such as ProPublica and Chicago’s WBEZ radio channel have highlighted the high number of people of colour becoming ill and dying from the disease. Experts say a number of reasons – poor diet, lack of access to healthcare and underlying health problems – are the reason.

    In his comments, delivered as the Democratic hopeful was hoping to defeat Democratic rival Joe Biden in the Wisconsin primary, Mr Sanders said the numbers were stark.

    “In Louisiana, 70 per cent of people who have died from Covid-19 are African Americans. But African Americans make up only about one third of the population of Louisiana. In Milwaukee, Wisconsin … twice as many black residents have tested positive compared to white residents, while comprising only 27 per cent of the population. In Chicago, African Americans make up 72 per cent of the coronavirus-related deaths, and yet account for only 29 per cent of the population.”

    On Tuesday, as the total number of infections from the virus hit 380,000 and the death toll passed 12,000 Donald Trump was for the first time obliged to acknowledge the disparity.

    “We’re doing everything in our power to address this challenge, it’s a tremendous challenge. It’s terrible,” he said at the White House.

    Dr Deborah Birx, a member of Mr Trump’s taskforce, said African Americans were not more “susceptible” to coronavirus. “What our data suggests is that they are more susceptible to more difficult and severe disease and poorer outcomes,” she said. Her colleague Dr Anthony Fauci said African Americans were already known to be more prone to illnesses like diabetes, hypertension and asthma, which can exacerbate coronavirus symptoms.

    Dr Barbara Ransby, a professor of African American studies at the University of Illinois at Chicago, said on Mr Sanders’s livestream that black Americans were often the “canary in the coal mine”.

    “They are the communities that are first affected by a lot of the bad things that happen in this country, and they’re the community that is among the worst affected [by] horrible things like coronavirus,” she said.
    "

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...-a9454096.html

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    The problem is that he didn't address these kinds of issues until he realized they were important to his election.
    Last edited by aja_christopher; 04-09-2020 at 07:40 AM.

  4. #15589
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Inquisitor View Post
    It isn't a conspiracy but they view it as one since they don't have the experience to lower their expectations correctly. This was how the "rigged" narrate got started in '16. That's just good politics, not a conspiracy and Sanders likely would have had Warren in his corner doing that right now had he not burnt that bridge to the ground.



    This being true does not disprove what I'm saying.



    It's not the nominee's who have a problem with losing.



    Placing all the whole burden on Biden isn't how this goes, sure he deserves some of it since he is the nominee but Sanders and his followers have their own agency and responsibilities in this process, they're not passive bystanders in elections. Sanders himself sets the tone for how Biden can reach his supporters and he's horrible at doing that for other candidates, his followers do that in spite of him not because of him. It's not an "excuse" it's how politics works in America, no-one is able to avoid the consequence of a Republican president. He can't do that job if Sanders sabotages him from doing it, Sanders isn't that great at forming coalitions which effects transitions like this - he knows how to rev people up but he's clueless into knowing how to cool them down. Sanders' supporters adamant refusal to acknowledge they can do anything wrong is frustrating.
    Haha. No that’s exactly how this goes. You and others here have already been critical of Sanders inability to bring in moderates and black voters in the south. I didn’t push back that he had flaw bringing them out for him. It was his job. Biden has the job to win this ejection. For the next 7 months his job is to turn out a coalition that will in large part need the more progressive wing to turn out to win. Just like Sanders he doesn’t have an excuse if he fails to turn out a unified coalition. You don’t get to have deprecate standards for those you like and don’t like.

    Sanders dropped out he did so earlier than any final primary candidate since 2000. Biden has a month before the convention and more than half a year to start his reach out efforts. You don’t get to blame Sanders anymore. No more excuses in your back pocket

  5. #15590
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    I don't think either Biden or Sanders can beat trump. I don't see that much passion from Americans into supporting either.

  6. #15591
    Mighty Member TheDarman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aja_christopher View Post
    The problem is that he didn't address these kinds of issues until he realized they were important to his election.
    I don’t know if that is necessarily true. I think Sanders has often said similar things about racial disparities. But I think that that statement in your post is fairly light on substance and big in pluralities. That’s the bigger issue, I think—that it really is more lip service than anything else and usually comes right before he shifts into “class over race” issues. Sanders has also shown that he generally is more interested in forming other coalitions, like he did to win California. He didn’t need to cede ground to black voters, but I think the data has shown that they are actually more conservative on issues, particularly regarding economic issues. I think Sanders struggled with making his pitch work for them—especially given how he believes that economic solutions are solutions for racial problems as well. They aren’t and many black folks resent that assessment.

    Could Sanders have won this bloc? Sure. But he didn’t seem that dedicated to trying to build up support within it. Unlike other candidates, Sanders has been running since 2016 and always had his eye on running again in 2020. He also understood what the reception to his candidacy was. He didn’t try to change his personal messaging nor was he particularly concerned with softening his tone towards the party, which has been seen as one of the only consistent allies for many black folks for a while (one could argue rightly or wrongly, but that is how people feel).

    I think Sanders looked at his coalition in 2016 and probably thought it was airtight, thinking those were “for Bernie” votes rather than “not Clinton” votes. I don’t think he anticipated Biden eating into his original coalition. He thought he could build on that coalition marginally and seize a majority by performing a little better among Latino voters, who broke for Clinton last time. Obviously, this assessment was incorrect. But I don’t know if Sanders was the kind of politician to recognize that there might be difference in reception to two “establishment” candidates among his initial voting bloc.
    With Great Power, Comes Great Responsibility

    Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely.

  7. #15592
    Spectacular Member MacrossPlus's Avatar
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    Then we’re doomed

  8. #15593
    Ultimate Member Gray Lensman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheDarman View Post
    I don’t know if that is necessarily true. I think Sanders has often said similar things about racial disparities. But I think that that statement in your post is fairly light on substance and big in pluralities. That’s the bigger issue, I think—that it really is more lip service than anything else and usually comes right before he shifts into “class over race” issues. Sanders has also shown that he generally is more interested in forming other coalitions, like he did to win California. He didn’t need to cede ground to black voters, but I think the data has shown that they are actually more conservative on issues, particularly regarding economic issues. I think Sanders struggled with making his pitch work for them—especially given how he believes that economic solutions are solutions for racial problems as well. They aren’t and many black folks resent that assessment.

    Could Sanders have won this bloc? Sure. But he didn’t seem that dedicated to trying to build up support within it. Unlike other candidates, Sanders has been running since 2016 and always had his eye on running again in 2020. He also understood what the reception to his candidacy was. He didn’t try to change his personal messaging nor was he particularly concerned with softening his tone towards the party, which has been seen as one of the only consistent allies for many black folks for a while (one could argue rightly or wrongly, but that is how people feel).

    I think Sanders looked at his coalition in 2016 and probably thought it was airtight, thinking those were “for Bernie” votes rather than “not Clinton” votes. I don’t think he anticipated Biden eating into his original coalition. He thought he could build on that coalition marginally and seize a majority by performing a little better among Latino voters, who broke for Clinton last time. Obviously, this assessment was incorrect. But I don’t know if Sanders was the kind of politician to recognize that there might be difference in reception to two “establishment” candidates among his initial voting bloc.
    Seeing as how a lot of economic policies dating back to the New Deal often specifically excluded black Americans and even later stuff made it easy for the states to exclude them, I can't blame them for not buying into Sanders's ideas.
    "Theory: The Phoenix doesn't corrupt the characters, it corrupts the authors." Gambit, King of Thieves

  9. #15594
    Astonishing Member jetengine's Avatar
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    The bigger problem for Biden isnt the Bernie Bros saying "He's a loser" its them saying he's a rapist.

  10. #15595
    Mighty Member TheDarman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gray Lensman View Post
    Seeing as how a lot of economic policies dating back to the New Deal often specifically excluded black Americans and even later stuff made it easy for the states to exclude them, I can't blame them for not buying into Sanders's ideas.
    This has been my point for a while. You have to really emphasize that their rights aren’t compromisable or tradable to get these programs passed. Sanders didn’t inspire confidence that local officials wouldn’t be able to exclude them from programs that they should receive benefits from. Especially since his only federal fix for their problems rested on economic programs, which would be administered locally.
    With Great Power, Comes Great Responsibility

    Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely.

  11. #15596
    New old guy Surf's Avatar
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    'Favorite' is not apt however the one Corona programming I haven't missed going on 2 weeks now has been Cuomo's daily New York briefing, all 2 hours of it. I'm familiar with the few sparse reporters and officials in the briefings. I don't even live in NY and I still won't miss it. If I'm late to the approx 11:30AM I'm rewinding it on YT. #thisiswherewereat
    Beefing up the old home security, huh?
    You bet yer ass.

  12. #15597
    Ultimate Member Kirby101's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shooshoomanjoe View Post
    I don't think either Biden or Sanders can beat trump. I don't see that much passion from Americans into supporting either.
    All polls show either of them beat Trump from 5% to 8%. More than 50% of voters say they will never vote for Trump. It isn't that either would beat Trump. They would. It's if Trump can pull off another Electoral College win while losing by more votes than last time. He can, but that small margin is where the election will lie.
    There came a time when the Old Gods died! The Brave died with the Cunning! The Noble perished locked in battle with unleashed Evil! It was the last day for them! An ancient era was passing in fiery holocaust!

  13. #15598
    Mighty Member TheDarman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kirby101 View Post
    All polls show either of them beat Trump from 5% to 8%. More than 50% of voters say they will never vote for Trump. It isn't that either would beat Trump. They would. It's if Trump can pull off another Electoral College win while losing by more votes than last time. He can, but that small margin is where the election will lie.
    That’s why I kept looking at polls in Wisconsin, Michigan, and Pennsylvania. And Biden leads Trump to varying degrees in every one of those states. He also leads him in Arizona and Florida. The question with the latter two, though, is, with Republican Governors, can he get voters suppressed to the degree necessary to keep folks from voting for Biden to eek out wins. Meanwhile, Sanders started at a lower polling average in every one of those states, while losing Florida and Arizona by fairly large margins.
    With Great Power, Comes Great Responsibility

    Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely.

  14. #15599
    Astonishing Member Joker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Surf View Post
    #thisiswherewereat
    Hashtag this is appalling grammar.

  15. #15600
    Invincible Jersey Girl Tami's Avatar
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    EVERYONE BUT US: The Trump Administration and Medical Supply Exports Report by the Office of Congresswoman Katie Porter (CA-45) April 6, 2020
    Original join date: 11/23/2004
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