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  1. #5686
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Inquisitor View Post
    That's where the conflict comes in, since this doesn't push back on Rogan's audiences horrible views, they welcome them into the coalition and expect total loyalty without doing years of work to earn it. They think they did all the work already, when all they got was an interview with Bernie and Rogan's endorsement. Appealing to voting blocs requires immense trust gaining, which can take years and involves many acts on both sides to show tangible affects and this signalling endangers alienating the various demographics who would be discriminated by those very same people Rogan relies on. Which includes the Alt-Right.

    Rogan isn't Leftist, he's a Libertarian. He might like some ideas Bernie has but as soon as he sees Trump offering something better he's jumping ship and so will his audience.
    We all agree that Rogan and his listeners are problematic and that we should be wary to not let them influence or undermine our core policy goals in any way. However, I just find it curious that there is huge media blitz against Bernie simply for accepting his endorsement, while nobody really bats an eye at the fact that Biden counts as close friends a veritable who's who's of racist southern senators, or that Warren used to be a Republican and gave a speech at the flippin' Federalist Society, the same one that Brett Kavanaugh belonged to. Moderates always try to use minority and LGBT communities to deflect against progressive economic objectives, somehow implying that all the benefits from social benefits will flow to straight white people, leaving them out in the cold. But what they never seem to mention is what they are offering as an alternative, because as always they have absolutely nothing, and come general election time they'll be bending over backwards to reach out to the same midwestern swing voters and won't balk at throwing any and all marginalized communities under the bus to do so. And I don't want to hear any more arguments about the prudence of incremental change over forcing a radical agenda down everyone's throat, that's traditionally been a conservative talking point and ignores the fact that small concessions are only possible because activists demanded and fought for big ones. If all that you are asking for is minor tweaks to the system, what you end up getting is zero progress or even backsliding, as the last decade of Democratic attempts at compromise have shown.

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    we should certainly discuss Trump's alleged sexual assault more. heaven knows that we won't be able to discuss it if Biden wins the primary. then we face potential blowback.

  3. #5688
    Astonishing Member jetengine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Watkins View Post
    we should certainly discuss Trump's alleged sexual assault more. heaven knows that we won't be able to discuss it if Biden wins the primary. then we face potential blowback.
    Why ? It will get absolutely nowhere. If he can survive pussygate and Stormy Daniels then people going "You know he's a rapist" will do jack ****.

  4. #5689
    Invincible Jersey Ninja Tami's Avatar
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    Bernie Sanders and His Internet Army

    The defense from Bernie Sanders was straightforward: It wasn’t me.

    He had been milling about on the Senate floor one day in the summer of 2017 when a colleague, Kamala Harris, stepped toward him. “Do we have a problem?” Ms. Harris asked, according to Democrats familiar with the exchange.

    Some prominent Sanders supporters had been flaming Ms. Harris publicly as the preferred choice of the corporate Democratic establishment against which Mr. Sanders had long railed, a view amplified among Sanders-boosting accounts across social media. “Pre-emptive strike,” one person wrote on the popular SandersForPresident Reddit group, where Sanders fans were sharing details of Ms. Harris’s recent fund-raising swing in the Hamptons with former Hillary Clinton donors. “Start the conversation now, end it before 2020.”

    Mr. Sanders assured Ms. Harris that there was no issue, the Democrats familiar with their conversation said. He insisted that he could not control how his followers communicated.

    But two years later, as both senators pursued the party’s 2020 presidential nomination and Ms. Harris returned to the Hamptons to collect campaign checks, Mr. Sanders broadcast an observation of his own after Ms. Harris raised doubts about his “Medicare for all” plan. “I don’t go to the Hamptons to raise money from billionaires,” he tweeted last August, elevating a message that supporters had already been pushing. Thousands of retweets followed.
    Yet as Mr. Sanders moves to position himself as a standard-bearer for a party he has criticized from the left for decades, the power of his internet army has also alarmed Democrats who are familiar with its underside, experienced in ways large and small.

    Some progressive activists who declined to back Mr. Sanders have begun traveling with private security after incurring online harassment. Several well-known feminist writers said they had received death threats. A state party chairwoman changed her phone number. A Portland lawyer saw her business rating tumble on an online review site after tussling with Sanders supporters on Twitter.
    Other notable targets have included Ady Barkan, a prominent liberal activist with A.L.S. — whom some Sanders-cheering accounts accused of lacking decision-making faculties due to his illness as he prepared to endorse Senator Elizabeth Warren — and Fred Guttenberg, the father of a shooting victim from the 2018 Parkland massacre, who had criticized Mr. Sanders’s statements about gun violence.

    “Politics is a contact sport,” said Bakari Sellers, a former South Carolina State legislator who supported Ms. Harris in the Democratic primary. “But you have to be very cognizant when you say anything critical of Bernie online. You might have to put your phone down. There’s going to be a blowback, and it could be sexist, racist and vile.”

    In recent days, he said, one man sent a profanity-filled private message on Instagram, calling Mr. Sellers, who is black, an “Uncle Tom” and wishing him brain cancer.

    When Mr. Sanders’s supporters swarm someone online, they often find multiple access points to that person’s life, compiling what can amount to investigative dossiers. They will attack all public social media accounts, posting personal insults that might flow in by the hundreds. Some of the missives are direct threats of violence, which can be reported to Twitter or Facebook and taken down.

    More commonly, there is a barrage of jabs and threats sometimes framed as jokes. If the target is a woman, and it often is, these insults can veer toward her physical appearance.

    For some perceived Sanders critics, there has been mail sent to home addresses — or the home addresses of relatives. The contents were unremarkable: news articles about the political perils of centrism. The message seemed clear: We know where you live.
    Last edited by Tami; 01-28-2020 at 09:23 AM.
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  5. #5690
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tami View Post
    To his credit, Bernie did apologized for the sexual harassment from Bernie Bros and warned also warned them. The question is why does Bernie attract these types of people?

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    Quote Originally Posted by shooshoomanjoe View Post
    To his credit, Bernie did apologized for the sexual harassment from Bernie Bros and warned also warned them. The question is why does Bernie attract these types of people?
    Extreme views attract extreme personalities.

    It's why a lot of Americans just want some moderate progressivism.

    Trading one crazy for another.
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  7. #5692

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    Quote Originally Posted by shooshoomanjoe View Post
    To his credit, Bernie did apologized for the sexual harassment from Bernie Bros and warned also warned them. The question is why does Bernie attract these types of people?
    the question is why does creepy Joe not attract these types. maybe they don't like their reflection.

    Quote Originally Posted by jetengine View Post
    Why ? It will get absolutely nowhere. If he can survive pussygate and Stormy Daniels then people going "You know he's a rapist" will do jack ****.
    letting up is the mistake. keep it in the public consciousness. conservatives count on it disappearing and people forgetting about it. make Trump's supporters own it.
    Last edited by Michael Watkins; 01-28-2020 at 12:49 PM.

  8. #5693
    Mighty Member TriggerWarning's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Watkins View Post
    we should certainly discuss Trump's alleged sexual assault more. heaven knows that we won't be able to discuss it if Biden wins the primary. then we face potential blowback.
    Dems have no grounds to stand on though as they supported Hilary Clinton in 2016. Bill Clinton was accused of rape multiple times and by far more credible victims than any of the Trump ones. Hilary and democrats defended Bill attacking his victims then tried to put him back in the White House in 2016. While Hilary would have been president, Bill absolutely would have wielded tremendous power given his experience as a former president.

  9. #5694
    Invincible Jersey Ninja Tami's Avatar
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    GOP Senator Suggests Party Is Using Ukraine Scandal to Hurt Biden in the Primary

    n December, the GOP’s lead counsel in the House impeachment inquiry Steve Castor disagreed with the notion that President Trump had pushed for an investigation in Ukraine in order to hurt Biden’s shot at the White House in 2020. Other Republicans, including Senator John Kennedy and Trump’s own legal team, have frequently argued that a notoriously corrupt president simply wanted to clean up duplicity in a country more or less immaterial in the big picture of American foreign policy — a claim undermined by the fact that three of Trump’s surrogates are either facing federal charges or are the reported target of a federal investigation for their actions in Kiev.

    But in a break from the impeachment trial, Joni Ernst quite explicitly set the record straight. Referring to the defense team’s opening statements depicting the Bidens as America’s number-one family for nepotism and corruption, the Iowa senator pondered how the day’s developments would inform caucus-goers in her home state:
    “Iowa caucuses, folks. Iowa caucuses are this next Monday evening, and I’m really interested to see how this discussion today informs and influences the Iowa caucus voters, those Democratic caucus goers. Will the be supporting Vice President Biden at this point?”
    “Senator Ernst just said the quiet part out loud,” Biden spokesperson Andrew Bates said in a statement. “Republicans are terrified that Joe Biden will be the Democratic nominee, defeat Donald Trump, and help progressives up and down the ballot win seats in the House and take the Senate.”
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  10. #5695
    Ultimate Member Malvolio's Avatar
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    Well, of course. They all know that there's nothing there, but Trump just wanted the announcement of an investigation, to plant the seed in voters' minds that Biden is dirty. It's more or less this year's version of Hillary's e-mails.

  11. #5696
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    Quote Originally Posted by TriggerWarning View Post
    Dems have no grounds to stand on though as they supported Hilary Clinton in 2016. Bill Clinton was accused of rape multiple times and by far more credible victims than any of the Trump ones. Hilary and democrats defended Bill attacking his victims then tried to put him back in the White House in 2016. While Hilary would have been president, Bill absolutely would have wielded tremendous power given his experience as a former president.
    Except (Accept) that Hillary Clinton isn't running for President this year.
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  12. #5697
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    Collins indicated 17 of her colleagues would vote for witnesses if the vote was closed.

    What virtue ...
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  13. #5698
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    Quote Originally Posted by KNIGHT OF THE LAKE View Post
    You know why we find you unreasonable
    Who cares -- I've done literally nothing but try to reason with you for the past week or so and you'd still rather argue than just answer the questions asked.

    Because all of you know you don't have the answers to those questions regarding Sanders' campaign -- just attacks and slander -- as you continue to do with every post. If you had just answered the questions with factual information, we wouldn't even be having this discussion (i.e. argument) right now.

    The article Tami posted is correct -- I dealt with racist attacks from Sanders supporters in 2016 and I saw plenty of sexism aimed at Hillary as well.

    On top of that, pointing it out -- like saying that you shouldn't use black people just to attack Biden -- only makes you behave even worse.

    Sanders lost to Hillary badly in 2016 because people preferred Hillary to him: he is not a messiah, the majority of Americans don't vote for his policies, he ignores issues of civil rights, and he couldn't even win on the "left" -- he's just another political candidate who has to earn people's votes like every other contender.

    Support your candidate as you see fit, but stop lying about why people criticize his politics and his supporters -- you come here and trash Harris, Beto, and Biden constantly but then turn around and throw fits when people ask for factual information about your candidate.
    Last edited by aja_christopher; 01-28-2020 at 12:10 PM.

  14. #5699
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    Quote Originally Posted by aja_christopher View Post
    Who cares -- I've done literally nothing but try to reason with you for the past week or more and you'd still rather argue than just answer the questions asked.

    Because all of you know you don't have the answers to those questions regarding Sanders' campaign -- just attacks and slander -- as you continue to do with every post. If you had just answered the questions with factual information, we wouldn't even be having this discussion (i.e. argument) right now.

    The article Tami posted is correct -- I dealt with racist attacks from Sanders supporters in 2016 and I saw plenty of sexism aimed at Hillary as well.

    On top of that, pointing it out -- like saying that you shouldn't use black people just to attack Biden -- only makes you behave even worse.

    Sanders lost to Hillary badly in 2016 because people preferred Hillary to him: he is not a messiah, the majority of Americans don't vote for his policies, he ignores issues of civil rights, and he couldn't even win on the "left".

    Support your candidate as you see fit, but stop lying about why people criticize his politics and his supporters -- you come here and trash Harris, Beto, and Biden constantly but then turn around and throw fits when people ask for factual information about your candidate.
    I’m going to make this very clear, you made a post earlier criticizing me because you couldn’t be assed to do the bare minimum and pay attention to the subject that was being discussed.

    My post had nothing to do with Bernie Sanders. It was about a basketball player. You missed it because you came to start an argument. If that’s your goal, it speaks volumes and confirms what I’ve always thought.

    I’m not even reading the rest of this post. You lost all credibility with me. You’re back on block and I see no reason to ever read or respond to your posts. You earned that with your behavior. Go try to start an argument with someone else. It’s a joke that you even tried to save face by responding again. And I mean that. You proved you have an agenda and don’t take the time to read what other people post. Talking to you is fruitless as a result and there is no value because you are constantly in fight mode. I’m never engaging, reading or responding to your posts. Show some awareness and actually try to engage in an honest discussion with whoever else you feel like arguing with
    Last edited by KNIGHT OF THE LAKE; 01-28-2020 at 12:13 PM.

  15. #5700
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    Quote Originally Posted by KNIGHT OF THE LAKE View Post
    I’m going to make this very clear, you made a post earlier criticizing me because you couldn’t be assed to do the bare minimum and pay attention to the subject that was being discussed.

    My post had nothing to do with Bernie Sanders. It was about a basketball player. You missed it because you came to start an argument. If that’s your goal, it speaks volumes and confirms what I’ve always thought.
    The logic still applies which is why I brought it up: people don't just want A or B (to "hate" or to "praise") -- there's more nuance to it whether you're talking about Kobe or Sanders, especially when you constantly talk about people "hating" Sanders.

    And you still haven't answered that questions asked -- you're just continuing to attack the messenger and arguing.

    Ignoring that is a convenient way to dodge said questions but rest assured Sanders won't be able to dodge them in a general election.
    Last edited by aja_christopher; 01-28-2020 at 12:24 PM.

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