All purpose news and politics thread part v: The quickening

[aja_christopher]

Centrists use "Unity" as a weapon, basically telling Progresives shut up and bend the knee.

That is not at all what is happening.

What is being encouraged is rational and objective discourse rather than divisive attacks that will only hurt everyone except Trump and the Republicans in the long run -- just like in the last election.

I'm still waiting for an explanation as to why non-Sanders supporters should vote for a candidate who couldn't even win the last primary, much less one who promotes a political ideology that has yet to win a national election.

That is not an attack -- that is an objective rational, and unbiased question that deserves an objective rational, and unbiased answer.

[Superbat]

It's not just here -- if you go to Reddit, Gamefaqs, Salon (etc) you will see nothing but attacks on Biden and "corporate" Democrats by Sanders supporters.

There's an entire subreddit for bashing Bernie.

Outside of these forums there are people from all candidates that will go after the other candidates fairly and unfairly. I am talking about this forum, that's why I bring up people saying Bernie will make sexist attacks against Klobuchar or that Bernie supporters are more racist than Trump and not the people mocking his family members that died in the holocaust.

We can't do anything about what goes on anywhere else. We can change how we post on this forum.

[aja_christopher]

There's an entire subreddit for bashing Bernie.

But the vast majority of mainstream political forums -- especially those with younger voters -- involve bashing "mainstream" Democrats.

Anyone can find specific forums for and against certain political candidates, but the vast majority of popular online political forums on the "left" revolve around attacking Democrats who are not Sanders.

The only reason that doesn't happen here as often is because there is a more diverse base of posters here -- but even here it's often the Sanders supporters who are attacking "corporate/centrist" candidates like Hillary, O'Rourke, Harris, and Biden.

People rarely even attack Sanders' policies -- again, it's usually the supporters that most people have issue with, including Sanders himself who often apologizes for said behavior.

[Theleviathan]

Centrists use "Unity" as a weapon, basically telling Progresives shut up and bend the knee. Democrats have polls on their side for many issues and don't fight for our votes. We're just supposed to be Tribal and vote for incrementalism, #civility, and Trump bad sad and basically no change.

This is why we lose. Even when we get rid of dump, and get a centrist, then what?
Lol.
Work with people locking up children?

You don't have to bend the knee. Push for change, move the party left by all means. But when the election comes, then it's time to do what it takes to win. Then fight again to move the party. That's all I ask of anyone, regardless of their fit on the spectrum. Incremental change or idealistic change are both better than regression.

As I discussed with you earlier, the Justice Dems have reason to be excited about the future. What they can't dismiss is the present. Likewise, centrists should be excited about the present without dismissing the future. Too much of both is done and your posts here are very much guilty of that.

For many people, however, one of those two positions is far more rational. Bear with me....the centrist problem (dismissing the future) is a speculative mistake. Your problem? You're literally denying the current state of facts to make your case. That's hard for people to swallow. Maybe they should be more idealistic, but largely they're not. That has real political ramifications.

[Tazirai]

I agree that dems need an overhaul but Bernie with his pie in the sky promises, pro gun stance and wacky alternative medicine beliefs coupled with his advanced age and weakened heart isn't the right leader.

Everything just posted is a lie based with no facts or links to what was posted as facts. That's called a smear.

[Mister Mets]

Everything just posted is a lie based with no facts or links to what was posted as facts. That's called a smear.

Objectively speaking, two of the five points seem to be indisuputably true. He is a man in his late 70s who recently had a heart attack.

[aja_christopher]

Everything just posted is a lie based with no facts or links to what was posted as facts. That's called a smear.

I'll admit that I've criticized Sanders for his appearance in the past -- granted that could be considered somewhat shallow and superficial, but I think it's a fair criticism with regards to running for national public office. It's likewise a minor criticism that is far more subjective than factual, but I do feel presentation is a relevant concern with regards to running for the highest political office in the country.

My other primary criticism regards running a progressive candidate in a national election -- not to say he can't win, but why constantly attack other candidates who have a better chance of winning in an election that has such important consequences for the future just because you disagree with their politics? I can even accept that if he wins he will have difficulty actually passing the legislation he promises to enact, but it's the fact that he actually has to win first that most concerns me.

Statistically speaking, Biden has a better chance of beating Trump in key states, so why constantly demean the best -- or second best depending on your perspective -- shot Democrats have at winning the White House?

If there was a rational explanation as to why these constant attacks on "corporate" and "centrist" Democrats might be the most effective way to remove Trump -- and the Republican party -- from power, it would make sense to support said strategy but as it stands we've already seen how destructive it was in the last election, so why take that approach again in this election?

[aja_christopher]

"1 dead and 7 injured, including 9-year-old boy, in mass shooting on sidewalk in downtown Seattle"

"One person was killed and seven people were wounded in a shooting near Third Avenue and Pine Street in downtown Seattle Wednesday evening, according to Seattle Police Chief Carmen Best.

Police were asking people to stay out of the area after the shooting, which occurred shortly after 5 p.m. The suspect fled and was still being sought as of about 6:15 p.m., Best said.

According to Seattle Fire and Susan Gregg, a spokeswoman at Harborview Medical Center, an approximately 55-year-old woman was in critical condition, a 9-year-old boy was in serious condition and five other males were in satisfactory condition suffering from gunshot wounds to the legs, chest, buttocks and abdomen.

The woman who died was approximately 40 to 50 years old, according to fire department spokesman David Cuerpo."

https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle...tiple-victims/

[Billy Batson]

Out of all the Democratic candidate supporters Sanders supporters are the least likely not to vote blue. Warren supporters are 2.5 more likely not to vote for blue, so why is that question keep being asked about Sanders supporters?
Biden has been advocating cutting social security for almost 40 years so there was no lying involved.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

A batch of quietly released documents confirms what many have long suspected: Ronald Reagan’s 1980 presidential campaign worked behind the scenes to delay the release of US hostages in Iran, for the benefit of Reagan’s election campaign. It raises the question: When was the last time a Republican won a presidential election without the help of dirty tricks?

Critics will quibble that these documents don’t prove the actual specifics of the long-alleged “October Surprise.” This is true. According to the Times, they don’t show Reagan striking a deal with the Iranians to delay the release of the American hostages until after the election, but simply working behind the scenes to thwart negotiations to free them. Perhaps someone out there exists who thinks this is better.

Of course, these weren’t the only shenanigans Reagan got up to during that election. His campaign also famously got hold of Carter’s debate strategy papers in advance of their one and only debate in 1980, and less famously was alleged to have used retired CIA officials and a mole within the Carter administration to gather information about its foreign policy — mostly, as the Times reported in 1983, in relation to the Iran hostage crisis.

For those counting, that’s now at least four of the last six Republican presidents who have won elections with the assistance of some sort of pre-election skulduggery, including Richard Nixon’s torpedoing of peace in Vietnam, the George W. Bush campaign shenanigans in Florida and the later use of the “Swift Boat Veterans for Truth,” and Donald Trump’s boost from Russia’s hacking of Democratic Party emails (even if that wasn’t coordinated) — not to mention the use of voter suppression that unites them all. And that’s not counting George H. W. Bush getting help from John Major’s government in the UK to beat Bill Clinton in 1992.

The story is also a perfect example of the way the worlds of capital, politics, and foreign affairs blur together: the head of one of the country’s largest banks helping his right-wing political allies unseat their opponent and saving the skin of one lucrative foreign dictator, all while drawing on the expertise of a team of political elites, from Henry Kissinger and a former CIA director to a member of one of the country’s most prominent political families. Big business and the political establishment have long worked together; they just used to do it more quietly.

[Malvolio]

Appropriate name- the guy sounds like a horror story.

Don't think this has been mentioned in this thread- A few days ago, Rep. Ted Lieu made remarks about Devin Nunes working with Lev Parnas to undermine the government. Nunes, the Trump disciple that he is, immediately sued Rep. Lieu and demanded an apology. Rep. Lieu sent a reply back to the lawyer, which ended with 'Take this letter and shove it."

So now the horror author is the third scariest guy named Steve King.

[aja_christopher]

Biden has been advocating cutting social security for almost 40 years so there was no lying involved.

How exactly will Sanders pay for all of the programs he has proposed?

If it is via raising taxes, including on those in the middle class, how will he convince mainstream voters to vote for someone who wants to raise taxes enough to pay for these programs, and how will he pass said legislation through Congress?

----
"The fight between Joe Biden and Bernie Sanders over Social Security, explained"

"Here’s the bottom line: Biden and Sanders each highlight the part of Biden’s 40-year record that’s favorable to their own arguments. Sanders emphasizes Biden’s statements decades ago that show a willingness to slow spending in an effort to reduce the federal deficit. Biden emphasizes his current position in favor of protecting or expanding benefits.

Biden then referenced PolitiFact, and called the video "doctored" and "a fake." We didn’t declare the video fake or doctored, though it was taken out of context and misrepresented Biden’s positions.

The video ignored the complete passage which showed that Biden wanted Social Security and Medicare protected.

The Sanders campaign omits what Biden said next (our emphasis is in bold):

"Now, I don’t know a whole lot of people in the top one-tenth of 1 percent or the top 1 percent who are relying on Social Security when they retire. I don’t know a lot of them. Maybe you guys do. So we need a pro-growth, progressive tax code that treats workers as job creators, as well, not just investors; that gets rid of unprotective loopholes like stepped-up basis; and it raises enough revenue to make sure that the Social Security and Medicare can stay, it still needs adjustments, but can stay; and pay for the things we all acknowledge will grow the country."

https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-m...nders-over-so/

[aja_christopher]

Meanwhile, back at the Legion of Doom...

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"TRUMP CASUALLY CONFIRMS MEDICARE IS ON THE CHOPPING BLOCK"

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2020...ts-second-term

https://theweek.com/speedreads/89093...ocrats-pounced

[jetengine]

Meanwhile, back at the Legion of Doom...

------
"TRUMP CASUALLY CONFIRMS MEDICARE IS ON THE CHOPPING BLOCK"

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2020...ts-second-term

https://theweek.com/speedreads/89093...ocrats-pounced

The worse thing is Luthor would easily be a better President then Trump. Trump campaigns on fear, Luthor campaigned on free energy and flying cars for everyone.

[WestPhillyPunisher]

Meanwhile, back at the Legion of Doom...

------
"TRUMP CASUALLY CONFIRMS MEDICARE IS ON THE CHOPPING BLOCK"

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2020...ts-second-term

https://theweek.com/speedreads/89093...ocrats-pounced

That move figures to put him in the crosshairs of the AARP set who won't like having their benefits messed with.