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  1. #11656
    Astonishing Member PwrdOn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aja_christopher View Post
    That's not my job -- if you don't like Biden then vote for someone else.

    I'm not here telling you who to vote for -- I'm just saying don't try that "Democratic plantation" nonsense just to defend your political ideologies.

    If you don't know what it is look it up -- half the problem here is that you're so busy trying to lecture others that you refuse to learn anything.
    I'm not trying to lecture you and I've done a fair bit of research because, to be honest, the Democratic party wants badly to paint Super Tuesday as a bloodbath and there are so many columns put out recently by black writers making the exact same argument that you are, that progressives are all these out of touch ivory tower idealists who don't understand how things are on the ground in the black community and actually we are the racist ones who hate you and what not, and I just don't buy any of it.

    Also, isn't Democratic plantation what black Republicans say to troll people? I sincerely hope you don't think I'm saying what they're saying.

  2. #11657
    Genesis of A Nemesis KOSLOX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PwrdOn View Post
    Tell me what it is I'm missing then. What exactly is so special about Joe Biden that I'm missing here? Everything I've read from both columnists and posters points to either electability, which I don't buy for reasons I've already laid out, and his relationship with Obama, which I can understand but still is unconvincing to me because, well, you're not voting for Obama. So either I've misinterpreted Biden's appeal on either of these points, or there is some other thing that would matter to me if I was black but which I am not able to see, so what is it?
    Black people have tried siding with "progressives" many times in the past. What happens is the exact same thing you are complaining about with the establishment, we get used, and then our interests are placed on the back burner in favor of the "benefit to all", which then becomes a benefit to the few and we are told our turn will be next time.

    It's an old dance going back to Reconstruction.
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  3. #11658
    Astonishing Member PwrdOn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KOSLOX View Post
    Black people have tried siding with "progressives" many times in the past. What happens is the exact same thing you are complaining about with the establishment, we get used, and then our interests are placed on the back burner in favor of the "benefit to all", which then becomes a benefit to the few and we are told our turn will be next time.

    It's an old dance going back to Reconstruction.
    Yeah, I get that. "Old school" progressives tended to be closet racists at heart who cared more about their grand plans to engineer some utopian society, a vision that didn't really include minorities. However, I don't think that's what Bernie is.

  4. #11659
    Ultimate Member numberthirty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aja_christopher View Post
    ...

    Sounds like Sanders slogan -- or a progressive slogan going at least back to Carter.
    Carter was actually elected President.

    When HRC/Kerry/Gore manage to pull that one off, let me know.

  5. #11660
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    Quote Originally Posted by PwrdOn View Post
    I'm not trying to lecture you and I've done a fair bit of research because, to be honest, the Democratic party wants badly to paint Super Tuesday as a bloodbath and there are so many columns put out recently by black writers making the exact same argument that you are, that progressives are all these out of touch ivory tower idealists who don't understand how things are on the ground in the black community and actually we are the racist ones who hate you and what not, and I just don't buy any of it.

    Also, isn't Democratic plantation what black Republicans say to troll people? I sincerely hope you don't think I'm saying what they're saying.
    You've been trying to lecture others since you started posting here -- mainly in support of Sanders, while constantly attacking Biden.

    Anyway, I'll let you work the rest of it for yourself -- I've already basically said what I wanted to say.

  6. #11661
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    Quote Originally Posted by numberthirty View Post
    Carter was actually elected President.

    When HRC/Kerry/Gore manage to pull that one off, let me know.
    Ignoring Clinton, Obama, and every other moderate president.

    I'm not even going to take you seriously any more.

    It's like you don't even want people to trust your opinions.
    Last edited by aja_christopher; 03-06-2020 at 06:45 AM.

  7. #11662
    Ultimate Member numberthirty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aja_christopher View Post
    Ignoring Clinton, Obama, and every other moderate president.

    I'm not even going to take you seriously any more.
    You've got a list with two names on it, and of them needed Perot in the mix to pull off the win.

    So, again...

    When you actually have some more moderates winning a Presidency under their own steam, let's talk. Until then?

    Carter is someone they could actually learn something from.

  8. #11663
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    Quote Originally Posted by numberthirty View Post
    Carter was actually elected President.

    When HRC/Kerry/Gore manage to pull that one off, let me know.
    Bill Clinton and Barack Obama. Your insistence of ignoring the context of why those three lost isn't convincing that your stance has merit.

  9. #11664
    Genesis of A Nemesis KOSLOX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PwrdOn View Post
    Yeah, I get that. "Old school" progressives tended to be closet racists at heart who cared more about their grand plans to engineer some utopian society, a vision that didn't really include minorities. However, I don't think that's what Bernie is.
    Bernie might not be, but if his "movement" has legs it will outlive him and his successor might not value the efforts of black and brown people at all. Which historically has been the case.
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  10. #11665
    Ultimate Member numberthirty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Inquisitor View Post
    Bill Clinton and Barack Obama. Your insistence of ignoring the context of why those three lost isn't convincing that your stance has merit.
    To put this to you simply...

    - Former President Obama is a first that will only ever be a "First" one time.

    - Clinton needed Ross Perot to pull of the win.

    As for "Context..."?

    When it will actually change a "Loss" into a "Win" retroactively? We've got something to discuss.

    Otherwise?

    There is no "Stance..." They lost those elections.

  11. #11666
    Ultimate Member numberthirty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KOSLOX View Post
    Bernie might not be, but if his "movement" has legs it will outlive him and his successor might not value the efforts of black and brown people at all. Which historically has been the case.
    On the one hand? That could wind up happening.

    On the other hand? Do any of his potential successors(AOC/Omar) feel like that?

    I'm willing to just live and let live on that folks have to go with what they feel, but I'm not so sure that this one winds up playing out that way. Just feels like we might be in the spot where things could break with what has happened historically.

  12. #11667
    Astonishing Member jetengine's Avatar
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    Question from the white british guy.

    Why IS the Black community behind Biden besides (as mentioned earlier) "I worked with Obama and hot sauce" cause Warren was "Medicare and lets deal with Billionaires" Bernie was "Lets socialist this up" what Bidens thing ? Cause the only thing that I can clearly remember is him acting like Trumpublicans are an oddity and not a clear representation of the party

  13. #11668
    Ultimate Member numberthirty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jetengine View Post
    Question from the white british guy.

    Why IS the Black community behind Biden besides (as mentioned earlier) "I worked with Obama and hot sauce" cause Warren was "Medicare and lets deal with Billionaires" Bernie was "Lets socialist this up" what Bidens thing ? Cause the only thing that I can clearly remember is him acting like Trumpublicans are an oddity and not a clear representation of the party
    Just to point this out, that's probably not a reference to Biden.

  14. #11669
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    Quote Originally Posted by numberthirty View Post
    To put this to you simply...

    - Former President Obama is a first that will only ever be a "First" one time.

    - Clinton needed Ross Perot to pull of the win.

    As for "Context..."?

    When it will actually change a "Loss" into a "Win" retroactively? We've got something to discuss.

    Otherwise?

    There is no "Stance..." They lost those elections.
    I haven't the foggiest idea where your going with that Obama comment. The first African American president? He won two elections and is a very popular politician.

    Clinton was a two termer, as well. Do you think Clinton wasn't popular during that time period? He was a rock star.

    Still, you continue to downplay these wins as credible achievements while boosting someone who couldn't manage to overcome the person who lost to Donald Trump.

    It's not about turning a "loss" into a "win," it's about establishing context which you refuse to hold leftists politicians to the same standard. But that would require giving the "establishment" credit for anything. No, they're loses - who cares about the GOP having to do incredibly outrageous things to win to beat them and the fact they have hundreds of compatriots who get elected all across the country, nationally and state wide.

  15. #11670
    Astonishing Member PwrdOn's Avatar
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    The hot sauce thing was about a Clinton claiming that she always carried a bottle in her purse, which of course was demeaning as hell but mostly to her. So I suppose I was misleading a bit in implying that a single person claimed to love both hot sauce and Obama, but let’s all be thankful such a candidate doesn’t really exist.
    Last edited by PwrdOn; 03-06-2020 at 07:06 AM.

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