All purpose news and politics thread part v: The quickening

[zinderel]

So, to try to discuss something OTHER than the interminable Holy War between the Bernie Faithful and the rest of the unwashed heathen masses...

I work at an elementary school, and currently, the fourth grade classes I work with are studying the Holocaust and the rise of fascism in pre-WW2 Europe, as well as the aftermath of the war. One of the subjects that came up was Operation Paperclip, the organizer effort to smuggle Nazi scientists and thinkers into the US in order to bolster our race to space. One of the kids asked this question and, having recently watched the excellent HUNTERS show, it’s something I’m familiar with, and was wondering what people here might think:

Did Operation Paperclip help the Nazis we rescued from Justice spread their hatred here?

Now, the US was already pretty keen on fascism in the ‘30s. But it seems to me like that fascism that was being flirted with pre-Paperclip became a fully festering cancer in the years since, thanks - possibly - in large part to our ‘clever’ acquisition of - and aid in disappearing into America and abroad - a LOT of the greatest minds the Nazis had. Is it a loony conspiracy theory to note that correlation? Or does it only cross into loonytown if I start getting specific?

“Werner Von Braun secretly formed a cabal of hard right wing zealots and Nazis to take over the moon!” That’s an obvious loonytown conspiracy.
“Werner Von Braun and the other Nazi scientists brought over by our government, post-WW2, possibly never really renounced their ways and passed their beliefs to their children, grandchildren, and so on, as well as finding and lending support to white nationalist movements here where possible.” This...doesn’t seem far fetched and certainly helps explain a few things.

Is it too easy?

Is there proof to the contrary?

[JCAll]

I disagree with your analysis, but I won't bore people with the details. I've outlined my logic and methods in many posts already.

That's fair. I don't even have details or methods, so you're already well ahead of me.

[Tendrin]

I disagree with your analysis, but I won't bore people with the details. I've outlined my logic and methods in many posts already.

Methodic shitposting while drinking vodka doesn't count, Celgress! :P

[Celgress]

Methodic shitposting while drinking vodka doesn't count, Celgress! :P

Pfft shows what you know, I prefer to drink Fireball Whisky when I shitpost.

[JackDaw]

I disagree with your analysis, but I won't bore people with the details. I've outlined my logic and methods in many posts already.

Has Bernie ever advocated over-throwing the present regime by violent means? Is there any credible evidence to suggest he under the control of foreign powers? Does he have any significant control of any US military commanders?

Personally I’ve not seen you come up with any convincing evidence that Bernie is a secret communist.
But let’s as a thought experiment imagine he was, and he won the Presidency...

He still wouldn’t be able to do as much damage as another term of the Donald.

Because the President’s powers are actually well limited by the constitution. He would not have enough control of the two houses to do anything profoundly damaging. And because when push came to shove your soldiers would refuse illegal commands to shoot their own citizens.

The most “dangerous” thing he might do is reform health care and introduce better unemployment benefits!

[Celgress]

Has Bernie ever advocated over-throwing the present regime by violent means? Is there any credible evidence to suggest he under the control of foreign powers? Does he have any significant control of any US military commanders?

Personally I’ve not seen you come up with any convincing evidence that Bernie is a secret communist.
But let’s as a thought experiment imagine he was, and he won the Presidency...

He still wouldn’t be able to do as much damage as another term of the Donald.

Because the President’s powers are actually well limited as the constitution and he he would not have enough control of the two houses to do anything profoundly damaging. And because when push came to shove your soldiers would refuse illegal commands to shoot their own citizens.

The most “dangerous” thing he might do is reform health care and introduce better unemployment benefits!

Well, then why are you so worried about a second Trump term. By your logic, won't the same principle apply? Or does Trump have magical powers so he can brainwash the soldiers?

[Steel Inquisitor]

Has Bernie ever advocated over-throwing the present regime by violent means? Is there any credible evidence to suggest he under the control of foreign powers? Does he have any significant control of any US military commanders?

Personally I’ve not seen you come up with any convincing evidence that Bernie is a secret communist.
But let’s as a thought experiment imagine he was, and he won the Presidency...

He still wouldn’t be able to do as much damage as another term of the Donald.

Because the President’s powers are actually well limited by the constitution. He would not have enough control of the two houses to do anything profoundly damaging. And because when push came to shove your soldiers would refuse illegal commands to shoot their own citizens.

The most “dangerous” thing he might do is reform health care and introduce better unemployment benefits!

Sanders' brand places a high priority on utilising language that Communists care about to signal he's "one of them," and he signal boosts left wing dictators during presidential primary debates. He may not be a Communist but he thinks a large portion of his supporters are.

[Kevinroc]

Well, then why are you so worried about a second Trump term. By your logic, won't the same principle apply? Or does Trump have magical powers so he brainwash the soldiers?

I'm sick of his damn twitter account getting so much focus.

[Celgress]

Sanders' brand places a high priority on utilising language that Communists care about to signal he's "one of them," and he signal boosts left wing dictators during presidential primary debates. He may not be a Communist but he thinks a large portion of his supporters are.

That's a valid point. At the very least Sanders is ginning up such people with inflammatory rhetoric so they'll join his movement, which could be dangerous.

His inability to condemn well known left-wing distractors past and present is also troubling and very telling of where his sympathies lay and, IMO, what his true long-term intentions are.

[worstblogever]

On this date in 2015, “Crazy/Stupid Republican of the Day” ran its profile of Jean Schmidt, who on the floor of the House in 2005, called House Rep. John Murtha, a 38 year career veteran of the Marine Corps a coward for calling for troops to be removed from Iraq, getting Democrats riled up enough to drown her out with boos. While she claimed she was just quoting a Marine who she spoke to at Arlington National Cemetery about Murtha, the Marine she named denied ever making such a statement. Among her other charming moments include denying that the Armenian genocide occurred, agreeing with constituents who were Birthers, and going to an elementary school where she went ahead and took it upon herself to teach a room full of six-year olds about the word abortion. Schmidt also voted against the Lilly Ledbetter Act, voted against the repeal of "Don't Ask, Don't Tell", voted against the Zadroga Act, falsely claimed "32 of 33 women who go to Planned Parenthood get an abortion", and when she misheard the Supreme Court's ruling on the Affordable Care Act and thought it was overturned, gleefully squealed in delight on the steps of the court. She truly earned her sobriquet. Since Schmidt's career fell apart in 2012 after voters in her district finally realized she was utterly heartless.

It was in both 2016, and in 2017, that “Crazy/Stupid Republican of the Day” posted profiles about Janet Porter, a longtime anti-gay, anti-choice activist from Ohio who is an old pal of Michelle Bachmann who has written articles for the madhouse that is WorldNetDaily, (including the time where she discussed the Birther controversy surrounding President Obama). In the 2016 elections, Janet Porter decided to take a crack at running for the Ohio State Senate, to challenge incumbent GOP State Senator Larry Obhof because he refused to sponsor a fetal heartbeat abortion ban bill (because it's highly unconstitutional and the courts would overturn it anyway) and lost in the primary after only garnering 35% of the vote. Her qualifications for the job were few, she was a former conservative media personality who would present insane conspiracy theories (like the one where she warned of President Obama using FEMA to “stifle dissent” or that there will be a criminal ban placed on Christianity, focusing in particular on finding ways to do so to protect gay rights, which she relates to being a “Pedophile Protection Act”. That last bit of paranoia also led her to work to create the documentary “Light Wins”, featuring several sitting Republican members of Congress. While Porter had a lot more sway back in say, 2007, her media profile diminished in 2010 after she became an obsessive Dominionist who would pray for God to take control of America’s media. That got her show cancelled on mainstream radio, so instead, she organizes wacky rallies and stunts like calling upon fetuses to testify in the Ohio House to try to get legislation as levelheaded as a fetal heartbeat bills passed, or work towards defunding Planned Parenthood, when she’s not also advocating for gay conversion therapy to be more widely utilized. Within the past FEW years, has compared the current “plight” of Christians in the United States to that of the Jews in Nazi Germany, likened gay marriage to slavery, compared fighting ISIS to trying to have abortion outlawed, claimed the End Times were upon us and the Great Flood was caused by God being angry about gay marriage a couple thousand years ago, and suggested that anti-gay Kentucky clerk Kim Davis should be considered as TIME Magazine’s “Person of the Year” In August in 2016, told her fellow Christians that "God would hold them accountable" if they did not vote for Donald Trump for president and predictably declared the candidate who lost the popular vote by 3 million votes but won the electoral college was due to "the mercy of God", and "a door of opportunity" to fulfill her dream of ending abortion. She then set back to work pissing off Ohio Republicans with her unconstitutional fetal heartbeat bill, saying she hoped it would pass so it would "outlaw abortion before the mother even knows she's pregnant". Because that doesn't sound like a fanatical or inherently manipulative of a motivation, at all. If there were any doubt Janet Porter was more of a hindrance than a help to the GOP, we’ll note that she spent much of 2018 serving as the spokeswoman for noted theocratic fanatic and pedophile Roy Moore in his quest to get elected to the U.S. Senate. She continues to stump for Republican candidates, but has temporarily ceased her own efforts at getting elected to office.



On this date in 2018, as well as 2019, “Crazy/Stupid Republican of the Day” profiled South Dakota State Senator Wayne Steinhauer, the embodiment of Mr. Kotter upon reaching retirement, and a member of the South Dakota House of Representatives to represent District 9 who was first appointed to that position by Governor Dennis Daugaard in 2015, before winning re-election for the first time in 2016. In 2018, he managed to jump to the South Dakota State Senate with 56% of the vote. Steinhauer replaced Steve Hickey, the CSGOPOTD alumni who made himself infamous as an anti-LGBTQ bigot who had to resign in disgrace after being accused of forging signatures to get his name on the ballot in the first place. For as homophobic as Hickey was, Steinhauer is apparently just as much of a misogynist.

This became apparent in early 2017, when during discussions in the South Dakota state legislature about workplace protections for pregnant women that Steinhauer was one of eight Republican men who voted to block it and opined:

"It’s not prison. You can quit. You’ve got a choice every day. You make a choice whether you come to work,” he went on. “And I’m here to tell you, if a person’s not allowing you to breastfeed at work or making appropriate accommodations at work, we can pass this law, but you don’t want to work for that guy. Get the heck out of there."

Why, if we didn’t know any better, we might think that Steinhauer and his GOP pals are disingenuous and utterly full of s*** when they tout their opposition to abortion as proof that they are concerned about the unborn. And wouldn’t you know it, South Dakota Right to Life gives him a 100% rating, partially because he also co-sponsored a ban on abortion at 19 weeks that is unlikely to hold up in courts. Gotta love the hypocrisy there.

Steinhauer also has consistently shown himself to be contemptuous of workers’ rights, regardless of if that worker is pregnant or not, like when he co-sponsored legislation to prevent collective bargaining at public universities in South Dakota. His ”smaller government” principles also have shown him wanting to make the state hands-off enough to co-sponsor transphobic bathroom legislation for the state’s schools. This in spite of there being zero reports nationwide of men impersonating women or transgender citizens attacking women in restrooms.

Steinhauer began this session in the South Dakota State Senate by voting for a bill to allow concealed carry of firearms without any permit or training. Because there’s not any evidence that shows a big uptick in gun violence and accidents in states that do so. Steinhauer will be up for re-election in 2020, and we’re hoping he gets bounced from office.

[JackDaw]

Well, then why are you so worried about a second Trump term. By your logic, won't the same principle apply? Or does Trump have magical powers so he can brainwash the soldiers?

No..of course..not.

It’s obvious that the Republican Party share enough of Trump’s aims to give him a significant power base. A “communist” Bernie would not get the same support from the Democrats.

Again can you give me any credible evidence to prove Bernie has ever supported violent over-throw of present regime? Or proof he has ever argued for the state to control ALL significant means of production?

Those are the litmus tests most of us have for “communism”.

[JCAll]

Well, then why are you so worried about a second Trump term. By your logic, won't the same principle apply? Or does Trump have magical powers so he can brainwash the soldiers?

I'm not 100% convinced that those red hats don't have some sort of Mad Hatter mind control chips in them.

[Tendrin]

Sanders' brand places a high priority on utilising language that Communists care about to signal he's "one of them," and he signal boosts left wing dictators during presidential primary debates. He may not be a Communist but he thinks a large portion of his supporters are.

I really don't think this is accurate at all, and it's kind of ridiculous to parrot right-wing fear-mongering about 'communists', or that a large section of the Democratic base are 'communists'.

[numberthirty]

That's a valid point. At the very least Sanders is ginning up such people with inflammatory rhetoric so they'll join his movement, which could be dangerous.

His inability to condemn well known left-wing distractors past and present is also troubling and very telling of where his sympathies lay and, IMO, what his true long-term intentions are.

Well...

At least that part was good for a bit of a laugh.

[Tendrin]

That's a valid point. At the very least Sanders is ginning up such people with inflammatory rhetoric so they'll join his movement, which could be dangerous.

His inability to condemn well known left-wing distractors past and present is also troubling and very telling of where his sympathies lay and, IMO, what his true long-term intentions are.

Sanders point of view is that literacy programs are good, even when bad people do them. The idea behind questions like this is to condemn the idea of the government doing things for the public good. For too long, we've allowed the idea that because communist governments did a thing, that makes the thing in and of itself communist and bad. This is a deeply silly point of view.