Originally Posted by
TheDarman
(continued from last post)
I don't know about up-and-down the social ladder. Bernie is pretty monolithic in his focus on the working class. Those policies, should they be enacted, would yield positive benefits towards those at the lower end of the socioeconomic ladder. I agree and I would love to see those plans come to fruition. And, maybe, if we had elected Hillary Clinton in 2016, we would only be four more years away from another Democrat like Sanders (AOC perhaps) taking up those reins and pursuing these policies without fear of a Supreme Court majority striking it down. But, now, Scalia's seat that opened up a whole year before Obama left office has been filled by Gorsuch--a guy who protected a truck company over a trucker who would've frozen to death if he hadn't abandoned his cargo. And Justice Kennedy's seat, a seat which held the swing vote on the Court, was filled by Kavanaugh--whose issues have long been litigated in this thread. Bill Clinton gave us Ruth Bader Ginsburg. If nothing else, the liberal justices would have said, "It isn't for us to decide on these issues, but, rather, for Congress and the people to make these decisions." But, no, we didn't vote en masse around the country to ensure Hillary Clinton, who was a policy wonk, just like Warren was this time, with clear and concrete plans for everything, would be the president to pick the replacements for these Justices. And so now we can only hope that we stop Trump from making the bench a 7-2 conservative dominated court.
I respect it. I've always respected idealists. But I do doubt their ability to lead and make compromises. The place for Sanders is right where he is at--fighting the good fight as the figurehead of a movement and being a thorn in Biden's side if he doesn't listen to progressives he needs to win over in order to keep his job. And, no, I don't have ANY illusions about the fact that Republicans WILL NOT help Biden with his agenda any more than they will help Sanders or they did Obama.
I saw Obama's eight years. I saw him take moderate economic stances (which I do agree with and I know many progressives don't) about allowing for inner cities to be tax free havens for businesses and continuing free trade programs with more worker protections than there had ever been (seriously, read the TPP--this thing was all about IP protection and reducing copyright protections on prescription drugs and putting in place environmental standards in other countries and putting in place mandatory compliance with labor laws which would even the playing field) that won him no support from Republicans. None. Zero. Zilch. Nada.
However, Biden does have an edge against Sanders on another demographic that is very important: moderate Democrats. Regardless of how well we do in the upcoming election, we will not have enough "safe blue" seats in the Senate or the House for a few Democrats not to have their feet held to the fire. How do they go back to their majority conservative districts and explain why they voted for "socialized medicine"? Frankly, I agree with Sanders that there are too many market failures and that the government should take care of health care. But how on earth are we supposed to accomplish that when conservative voters don't see it that way? If moderate Democrats see their careers at stake with these votes they, like all politicians, won't vote for it. And, frankly, if people in their district don't want it, they shouldn't vote for it. They are there to represent them and their interests.
You know what a public option DOES accomplish? It brings a government-based plan into the fore, which can be completely subsidized for poorer folks with Obamacare subsidies, and allows for all of us to buy into government health care. When it becomes clear that this is the better option and that it is more cost-efficient for what we get, private health care companies will naturally be reduced to nothing because they can't compete. The government will have a plan that isn't priced for profit. That is something insurance companies can't say. We get to virtually universal health care much quicker this way and it allows for government health care to win in a marketplace. This is a plan that moderate Democrats can defend as a cost control measure AND it provides health care to everyone, virtually free of charge if you can't afford it.
This is what I mean. This is why we can't just worry about Republicans supporting things. We need the whole party behind us if we are going to pass anything BECAUSE Republicans won't be fair and they won't support these bills. Sanders can't get the full party behind him.
I don't think it does. FDR and LBJ were worse social justice leaders than Barack Obama. Bet you can't guess which ones were primarily focused on economic programs to help the "working class" and which one was looking to ensure justice for racial, ethnic, and sexual minorities. I'll give you a hint--the latter rhymes with Sarack Lebama.
See, I believe most progressives truly do care. But a few in the progressive camp are willing to buy into campaigns that don't really take a critical look at these issues without a second thought.
And, sorry, but I've seen progressives slander people who agree with Obama and Biden on economic issues as "corportatist" and "establishment" or that they "hate poor people". So, let's not pretend that generalizing outwards from what we have seen among the worst supporters on each side hasn't been a practice used by both progressives and moderates.
You've seen Trump talk right? And, again, this isn't anything that Biden supporters don't know about him. He has never been a great communicator. But it doesn't mean that he has some kind of mental faculty decline. We have medical records that are verified to come from real doctors that this just isn't the case. But we do know that Sanders has had a heart attack. What do you think the life expectancy is for someone of his age after they've had a serious heart attack like that? Especially when they want to take on a stressful job? Hint: it isn't two terms.
Also, I will not give these guys any clicks. People like him and Jimmy Dore argued that we should let Trump take last election and then maybe after four years of terribleness we might finally get a revolution. The level of privilege you have to have to make that argument--let people suffer so that I can get the policies I want--is astronomic. They aren't reliable. They're shills for Sanders...to the detriment of the country if need be.