All purpose news and politics thread part v: The quickening

[aja_christopher]

To the person who keeps saying Sanders lost. That's not how math works and when you still have a chance and half the country hasn't voted. Then your hopes and dreams of Biden fall flat.

Let people vote.

No one here is having "hopes and dreams" of Biden -- they are just pointing out that he won the most votes and is the likely nominee so it's self-defeating for the "left" to continue trying to bash him at every opportunity.

I likewise never said Sanders should drop out but I do think that he should since he has no chance of winning and could hurt the Democrats chances of winning the election and removing Trump from office, which should be a priority at this point in history especially given economic circumstances.

You keep making things up just to try to make "enemies" of people who should be your allies.

I've mentioned that repeatedly but since you keep doing it I'll just assume that's your goal.

That said -- if you have to keep lying about people having "hopes and dreams" of Biden then you really need to ask yourself why that is.

[XPac]

No one here is having "hopes and dreams" of Biden -- they are just pointing out that he won the most votes and is the likely nominee so it's self-defeating to continue trying to bash him at every opportunity.

I likewise never said Sanders should drop out but I do think that he should since he has no chance of winning and hurt the Democrats chances of winning the election.

You keep making things up just to try to make "enemies" of people who should be your allies.

I've mentioned that repeatedly but since you keep doing it I'll just assume that's your goal.

That said -- if you have to keep lying about people having "hopes and dreams" of Biden then you really need to ask yourself why that is.

I'll admit I'm flipping on my opinion of Sanders dropping out of the race. A week ago I would say have said he should drop out to help unifty the party.

But with the recent sexual assault accusations against Biden, I think it might be a good idea to have a spare candidate on your back pocket just in case things really sour for the present front runner.

[aja_christopher]

I'll admit I'm flipping on my opinion of Sanders dropping out of the race. A week ago I would say have said he should drop out to help unifty the party.

But with the recent sexual assault accusations against Biden, I think it might be a good idea to have a spare candidate on your back pocket just in case things really sour for the present front runner.

It's not even anything I'd argue regardless -- Sanders can do whatever the rules allow him to do.

The fact that his supporters feel that he is entitled to the nomination is what I take issue with.

Whether they like it or not, this is still a democracy where votes matter more than polls and individual opinions in politics.

My core argument still stands -- let me know when all of those young and progressive voters show up to put their candidates in office.

[Tami]

'Stranded at sea': cruise ships around the world are adrift as ports turn them away

Ports around the globe are turning cruise ships away en mass amid the corona pandemic, leaving thousands of passengers stranded even as some make desperate pleas for help while sickness spreads aboard.

A Guardian analysis of ship tracking data has found that, as of Thursday, at least ten ships around the world – carrying nearly 10,000 passengers – are still stuck at sea after having been turned away from their destination ports in the face of the Covid-19 pandemic. Some of the ships are facing increasingly desperate medical situations, including one carrying hundreds of American, Canadian, Australian and British passengers, currently off the coast of Ecuador and seeking permission to dock in Florida.

The Holland America ship Zaandam, which has been stranded for days after Chile refused to allow the ship to dock in its original designation of San Antonio on 21 March, reportedly has 140 cases of respiratory illness on board, with some passengers needing breathing support.

[Tami]

Did a New York Times article inspire Trump's 'back to work' plan?

On Sunday, the Fox News host Steve Hilton railed against the idea of long-term social distancing. Hilton claimed “working Americans” will be “crushed” by an indefinite work shutdown. Hilton mused that there could be a situation where “the cure is worse than the disease”.

Within hours, the Fox News message found its intended target. On Sunday evening Trump tweeted, mangling Hilton’s words slightly: “WE CANNOT LET THE CURE BE WORSE THAN THE PROBLEM ITSELF.”

The idea of sending people back to work and restarting the economy had been floating around last weekend, propagated by two opinion pieces in particular. One was written on Medium. Another, published two days before the Hilton show, was an opinion piece by David Katz, a former director of the Yale-Griffin Prevention Research Center, which was published by the New York Times. Given the reach of the New York Times this piece, headlined Is Our Fight Against Coronavirus Worse Than the Disease?, attracted huge attention.

In the piece, Katz argues that those over 60 and those who are immunologically compromised should be “preferentially protect[ed]”, with focused testing.

“This focus on a much smaller portion of the population would allow most of society to return to life as usual and perhaps prevent vast segments of the economy from collapsing,” Katz wrote, adding that then children could return to school and adults return to their jobs.

In time, people would develop immunity to the coronavirus, and in the meantime, damage to the economy would be minimized, Katz opined.

But as many pointed out, Katz is not an epidemiologist. Instead, he specializes in nutrition advice, and has published a number of dietary books, including The Way to Eat, Cut Your Cholesterol and Stealth Health.

Katz’s piece was shared widely among conservatives, including by Fox News host and informal Trump adviser Pete Hegseth. The article served as a handy tool for conservatives advancing the argument that the economy shouldn’t be sacrificed for coronavirus containment.

[TheDarman]

I'll admit I'm flipping on my opinion of Sanders dropping out of the race. A week ago I would say have said he should drop out to help unifty the party.

But with the recent sexual assault accusations against Biden, I think it might be a good idea to have a spare candidate on your back pocket just in case things really sour for the present front runner.

As of right now, The Hill’s report on the allegation mention that they haven’t “independently verified” the accusation. Unlike Ford, Reade hasn’t taken a polygraph either. I’m wondering if other news organizations are being more cautious and trying to independently verify the story before they run it.

That being said, Sanders hasn’t lost. He just isn’t competitive with Biden anymore (barring the race being completely reoriented by the allegations by Reade). No candidate that has been down 300+ regular delegates WITH half the states still to vote has ever come from behind to win the nomination. Given that you still have delegates awarded by the share of the vote in each state, it’s really difficult to make that up with wins even like those Sanders got in Vermont.

Frankly, the best chance for Sanders is if this whole thing blows up, people recognize it is likely that Reade’s story is accurate, and Biden drops out of the race. Barring that, I just don’t see how Sanders cleans up enough in the last 22 states to make a difference.

[AnakinFlair]

As far as I know, Trump had come in direct contact with at least three men who tested positive. That miserable orange bastard has the Devil's own luck.

The virus couldn't penetrate all of that orange **** he slathers all over himself.

[KNIGHT OF THE LAKE]

The virus couldn't penetrate all of that orange **** he slathers all over himself.

When he touches his face it’s not his real face

[WestPhillyPunisher]

The virus couldn't penetrate all of that orange **** he slathers all over himself.

Hmm! That hadn’t occurred to me. Whatever that junk is, I would imagine it does provide sufficient defense against any sort of pathogen.

[SquirrelMan]

Its not weird, its refreshing in many ways.

There wasn't a thing said by Clinton or Obama that didn't feel like it had been run through pollsters first to get maximum effect. And that is true of so many politicians where everything they say is so couched in harmless neutrality or political doublespeak that it feels fake. For better or worse, Trump says what he actually thinks, not what his handlers want him to say for maximum polling.

WTF

...............

Do you remember "basket of deplorables" and how the media TRASHED Hillary for it?



"People clinging to their guns and religion" and how the media DESTROYED Obama for it?

[AnakinFlair]

So Ben Sasse of Kentucky is going to demand a roll call vote for the relief package, causing many house members who were back home to rush back to Washington.

[XPac]

WTF

...............

Do you remember "basket of deplorables" and how the media TRASHED Hillary for it?



"People clinging to their guns and religion" and how the media DESTROYED Obama for it?

For a variety of reasons, Trump can say and do things that other career politicians (even Republicans) can't get away with.

Certainly many politicians have had a few off script moments which they may or may not have paid a price for, but for Trump its a daily thing on Twitter and he seems largely bullet proof against any repurcissions from.

ANd like someone else said, I can sort of see that as being refreshing I suppose to see a politician with literally no filters. Not sure it's a good thing.... but it's different than we're used to a lot of the time.

[SquirrelMan]

So Ben Sasse of Kentucky is going to demand a roll call vote for the relief package, causing many house members who were back home to rush back to Washington.

Thomas Massie, not Ben Sasse.

Though it would be fun to introduce those two at a corona party, à la "Oprah? Uma. Uma? Oprah!"

[WestPhillyPunisher]

So Ben Sasse of Kentucky is going to demand a roll call vote for the relief package, causing many house members who were back home to rush back to Washington.

That sounds ominous. Could we be looking at yet another delay in getting that bill passed because some Republican fuckwad decides to cast a no vote for no other reason than shits and giggles?

[TheDarman]

There are a lot of folks, like Glenn Greenwald from the Intercept, saying that if Democrats are sincere about believing women, they should believe Tara Reade. I think that we do need to be careful about engaging in straw men like this. There are obviously conditions attached to that tagline. But let’s back up...

The reason why we have pushed so hard to believe women when they make allegations was because, for the longest time, it was difficult to be taken seriously and honestly. If it wasn’t said that she was lying to make it up or for attention, it descended into victim blaming. There was never true due process or actual attempts to listen to these folks.

Things have started to change for the better. Most of us have started to give women the benefit of the doubt. We indicate we want investigations and the like into what happened instead of just tossing aside their allegations. We have worked to better their chances to be heard and to, ultimately, get justice.

However, we can sway too much in the other direction. Just because we should take women’s allegations seriously doesn’t mean that it unconditional. Amber Heard accused Johnny Depp of domestic abuse. It has since become clear that she abused him by cutting off the tips of his fingers and the like. How many jobs did Depp lose because of these allegations? How many petitions to remove Depp from the Fantastic Beasts series were signed and dotted? We all thought that we were correct by presuming Heard was telling the truth.

My point is that we need to stay in the business of believing women and allowing them to be heard and for formal investigations to take place to seek justice. However, we ought to reserve judgment on the moral character of a person until such a time as those investigations are completed.

Kavanaugh had multiple credible accusations and people willing to comply with full investigations. That lends to their credibility. Will Reade be backed up by similar accounts? If the timeline is correct, Reade was assaulted while Biden was married. How many married men make moves on women and never attempt to do the same again after initial failure? Especially when they have the opportunity to have affairs when they are powerful and wealthy? Very few. If not, will Reade consent to a polygraph test like Ford did? Will Biden react positively to allowing for an investigation or will he try to hide it away?

These are questions that need to be answered, even separate from the information related to Russian meddling. To people being dismissive of this, it is really important to recognize how far many Russians went in 2016 to sew discord and get Trump elected. Outlets like The Intercept were critical for the Russian effort to succeed in 2016. We should be wary about the origin of this story (The Intercept) and the person making the allegations (a person who has stated her active support for Putin as a “liberal Democrat” and has supported two of Biden’s adversaries in the primary and has made a lot of pro-Sanders commentary on her Twitter in between begging for mainstream news to pick her up). This isn’t a clear-cut case. And people treating it that way and ignoring the nuance might just lead us into another Depp/Heard situation, where we are both forced to eat crow and face a set-back for the next woman who has legitimate claims of sexual assault.