All purpose news and politics thread part v: The quickening

[Mister Mets]

Ahhhh....again, why not just create a separate Progressive Party of whatever you want to call it? It's nice and all for the Democratic Party to let an Independent run in the Primary, but if Sanders really wanted to be a Democrat he'd be a Democrat and not an Independent.

If Sanders doesn't want to be a Democrat, then why do you want to be a Democrat if you feel strongly about not wanting to be a Democrat? Why not just follow Sanders lead? Where is the logic in that? If Sanders has so many supporters who feel that they aren't Democrats, then why not just create your own separate political party that you can do anything you want with?

Those of us who enjoy being Democrats and enjoy having the Democratic Party the way it is (all along the political spectrum) are not going to be happy about being bullied to leave our own playground.

You definitely don't want a third party, splitting votes and allowing conservatives to win with pluralities.

It will be the party of progressives.

Moderates and centrists aren't going to have a place in it once we're done. The fight won't last long.

Do you really think this is the most persuasive message?

And what if this sends the moderates and conservatives, who explicitly and ambiguously don't have a place, to the other party?

[aja_christopher]

I'm not forcing it on anyone.

Disagree all you want.

Not even a matter of disagreement -- it's completely possible the party will shift to the left in the future.

What's problematic is your seeming need to destroy everything else in the process based solely on your vision of what the party should become.

If it were just votes it would be one thing, but we're talking about direct attacks on other Democrats and the Democratic party in general.

It's the equivalent of burning down your own house when you don't have any other living options.

[Superbat]

I'll add that you sound like a fascist, so you shouldn't be surprised if you don't get people to vote for your candidate in the process.

Who are these people that won't vote against Trump because they didn't like what someone said to them online?

[jetengine]

Not even a matter of disagreement -- it's completely possible the party will shift to the left in the future.

What's problematic is your seeming need to destroy everything else in the process based solely on your vision of what the party should become.

This.

You want change, fine. Burning everything down to get it doesnt work.

[Tendrin]

Who are these people that won't vote against Trump because they didn't like what someone said online?

I'm dying. Dead. Slain.

[Superbat]

Do you really think this is the most persuasive message?

And what if this sends the moderates and conservatives, who explicitly and ambiguously don't have a place, to the other party?

I was talking about the party officials.

Most of the voters will still be with the Democrats and any that leave will be outnumbered by the progressives that start voting Democrat.

[Tendrin]

I was talking about the party officials.

Most of the voters will still be with the Democrats and any that leave will be outnumbered by the progressives that start voting Democrat.

Moderates compose the majority of democratic voters. Many of those moderates will vote for progressives, but voters generally will choose the candidate who is PERCEIVED as more moderate, lest we forget that Trump ran to Clinton's left on more than one issue.

What you are describing will lead to a rump party. Some folks may be fine with that, but if you want to actually enact your agenda, you're going to need more moderate, dare I even say centrist, voices to have room in the party.

[Superbat]

I'm dying. Dead. Slain.

If a Bernie supporter was really mean to you online, would you not vote against Trump in the general?

[ed2962]

Strawman. Those are not the only candidates left. Biden, Warren and even Klobuchar have MUCH less baggage and will be better able to form a broad coalition of voters like notorious centrist Obama did.

I was just stating that I think Pete and Mike would be worse in the General than Sanders. Klobuchar so far is less problematic, but I'm not sure her appeal reaches past a certain demographic. Even though Biden is doing poorly now, I still think he might be able to motivate voters in November. Sanders and Warren still have a better than average shot.

[Superbat]

Moderates compose the majority of democratic voters. Many of those moderates will vote for progressives, but voters generally will choose the candidate who is PERCEIVED as more moderate, lest we forget that Trump ran to Clinton's left on more than one issue.

What you are describing will lead to a rump party. Some folks may be fine with that, but if you want to actually enact your agenda, you're going to need more moderate, dare I even say centrist, voices to have room in the party.

Those moderates will come around when we win the election. Only the most conservative democrats will go over to the republicans.

[aja_christopher]

I'm dying. Dead. Slain.

"Your party lost an election so we're taking it over."

[Tendrin]

If a Bernie supporter was really mean to you online, would you not vote against Trump in the general?

We have people on this forum who refused to vote against Trump in a prior election. Bernie's stans do not get to lecture me, or anyone else, on my obligation to do my part to defeat Trump when a quarter of them refused to do that very thing.

[numberthirty]

I was just stating that I think Pete and Mike would be worse in the General than Sanders. Klobuchar so far is less problematic, but I'm not sure her appeal reaches past a certain demographic. Even though Biden is doing poorly now, I still think he might be able to motivate voters in November. Sanders and Warren still have a better than average shot.

In addition to that, you have what appears to be Sanders with Latino support.

If Trump somehow managed to wind up gaining two points of Latino support since he took office, will someone who is not Sanders be able to contend with that reality in a General?

[Superbat]

"Your party lost an election so we're taking it over."

The future of the party is going to be decided by Bernie or Bloomberg.

You can pick the progressive independent or go with the republican.

[aja_christopher]

In addition to that, you have what appears to be Sanders with Latino support.

If Trump somehow managed to wind up gaining two points of Latino support since he took office, will someone who is not Sanders be able to contend with that reality in a General?

It's not even whether someone else will be able to do it.

It's the fact that you are constantly trying to tear down any candidate -- like Beto -- who might do it.