All purpose news and politics thread part v: The quickening

[aja_christopher]

I think Biden’s guiding star was Obama’s advice to pick someone who was strong in areas he wasn’t. I don’t think Kloubachar is necessarily that candidate. I think she is strong in all the areas that Biden, himself, has largely proved he is strong with—namely the white, working class voters who vacated Clinton last time. What he needs is someone who can also energize and activate folks who just plain did not show up last time and will be willing to go through heck to get registered and vote. I don’t think Kloubachar was particularly strong in those areas.

I'll openly admit I prefer to keep Harris in the spotlight just because as a prosecutor I think she would be one of the best political choices to hold Republicans accountable for their actions -- not just with words but through law.

Both Bush and Trump are proof that Republicans need to start going to jail for their crimes -- if not, they will just continue the same criminal pattern of behavior and possibly get even worse as time continues.

At this point, they have made it clear they have little concern for the rule of law -- or even democracy itself for that matter.

[TheDarman]

I'll openly admit I prefer to keep Harris in the spotlight just because as a prosecutor I think she would be one of the best political choices to hold Republicans accountable for their actions -- not just with words but through law.

Both Bush and Trump are proof that Republicans need to start going to jail for their crimes -- if not, they will just continue the same criminal pattern of behavior and possibly get even worse as time continues.

At this point, they have made it clear they have little concern for the rule of law -- or even democracy itself for that matter.

I think part of the problem is that Republicans have been able to characterize the Democratic Party as soft on crime. This is because of things they believe to be key criminal justice reforms to reintroduce fairness in our system.

This is in spite of having the most criminal indictments in the last 30 years occur disproportionately underneath Republican Administrations. Part of Harris’ appeal, I think, is the ability to defuse that argument.

[aja_christopher]

I think part of the problem is that Republicans have been able to characterize the Democratic Party as soft on crime.

To their credit, many of them are very skilled liars -- which is why it was great to see how even a veteran liar like Barr, from the Bush regime no less, melted down under Kamala's questioning.

If anything, the selection of Trump just lays bare the fact that they feel they don't even have to be skilled about it anymore.

[Lightning Rider]

Occupy was a failed movement, as they refused to get into politics - that was beneath them. They had a short movement of relevance and wasted it, it's why Sanders to had to pick up where they left off.

Occupy was definitely flawed, but my point is that it's clear evidence of emerging social mobilization critical of the democratic party from the left.

They're far from perfect but they're managed to do much more than the left has by itself. The Democrats are in power, the left are on the sidelines or disorganised.

Which Obama tried. Failing to succeed isn't proof that he's a faking it, all it shows is that he didn't have the support required to do it. Fixing politics is a complex, cumbersome project which requires patience and planning and not dropping support the second it gets hard. If the left had supported Obama more maybe he wouldn't have ad to compromise as much as he did, he's working with the congress they gave him.

I'm talking about liberal democracy in the 20th century. I'm talking about the suppression of the German left by the Social Democratic party and paving the way for Fascism, I'm talking about the toothlessness of neoliberal institutions that have allowed capital flight and deindustrialization, I'm talking about the status quo being utterly week in Europe and the US against right-populism, I'm talking about the theory of the state as a neutral arbiter between classes being an illusion. The center won't hold in times of crisis.

Obama lacked the commitment to try and pull his party in a meaningfully progressive direction. His healthcare plan was a Heritage Foundation market-driven disaster.

Obama also took plenty of right-wing initiatives on his own that he didn't need congressional support for. He was very successful at eroding civil liberties, upholding disasterous free trade agreements that hurt workers, harassing and deporting undocumented immigrants, and furthering imperialism. It's implausible that behind the man pursuing those policies while unimpeded is a hardcore social democrat with his hands tied.

[Lightning Rider]

But Occupy didn't have much of an impact.

Part of it is that there weren't that many of them. They didn't have close to the numbers of the tea party. It seemed to be a movement built on getting outsized attention to a relatively small group of people protesting in major media markets. It was never clear whether a large enough percentage of the population was politically simpatico, but it's hard to get the numbers when going for something that requires days-long commitment, which weeds out people who have personal responsibilities.

I think the Sanders campaign doesn't happen without Occupy. Occupy was a result of the financial crisis, and undoubtedly impacted politics going forward. Inequality and populist dissatisfaction with elites is at a historic high.

[Darkspellmaster]

Like others I've heard mixed feelings on Kamala. Older voters seem okay with her over all, younger voters see her as a cop and cited her past record as a bad thing. I would say Talib Rashid, but her seat is also an issue and she's still a new Rep. Same for AOC and others. You have to be very careful with who you pic here.

1. VP has to be POC, nominally the person would be black, but you do want the latino vote to.

2. Must be a woman, this would rule out Castro who I thought could make inroads for the Latino community given they like Sanders.

3. Needs to be progressive. It has to be somebody who can be seen on the side of the voter who wants something more than center left.

So question is, who fits those qualities?

[jetengine]

Occupy was definitely flawed, but my point is that it's clear evidence of emerging social mobilization critical of the democratic party from the left.



I'm talking about liberal democracy in the 20th century. I'm talking about the suppression of the German left by the Social Democratic party and paving the way for Fascism, I'm talking about the toothlessness of neoliberal institutions that have allowed capital flight and deindustrialization, I'm talking about the status quo being utterly week in Europe and the US against right-populism, I'm talking about the theory of the state as a neutral arbiter between classes being an illusion. The center won't hold in times of crisis.

Obama lacked the commitment to try and pull his party in a meaningfully progressive direction. His healthcare plan was a Heritage Foundation market-driven disaster.

Obama also took plenty of right-wing initiatives on his own that he didn't need congressional support for. He was very successful at eroding civil liberties, upholding disasterous free trade agreements that hurt workers, harassing and deporting undocumented immigrants, and furthering imperialism. It's implausible that behind the man pursuing those policies while unimpeded is a hardcore social democrat with his hands tied.

And yet Obama did more then any progressive so far.

Weird that.

[PaulBullion]

Over in Ohio, more stupid people!

Guy Fawkes masks are not suitable protection from covid-19, I am afraid.

[WestPhillyPunisher]

I dunno...at this point, I don't think experience is that much of a factor for most mainstream voters anymore.

Perhaps you're right, but there is an important reason I want someone with experience as VP. Time to mention the elephant in the room: Biden is 78, should he win the election, he'd be the oldest candidate ever to become president, god forbid anything bad happen to him, but, if the worst case scenario were to come to pass, say he suffered a heart attack in the middle of the night, would you be comfortable with a neophyte like Abrams in the big chair? I sure as hell wouldn't.

[ed2962]

I just linked to a poll that shows that she has an above 30% net favorability rating with black voters. This might be a classic case of allegorical evidence not being worth too much.

Eh...I don't know if I'd call that high. I can't say for certain that Harris would hurt Biden with black voters, but I don't think that she would be a draw for that demo.

[KNIGHT OF THE LAKE]

Like others I've heard mixed feelings on Kamala. Older voters seem okay with her over all, younger voters see her as a cop and cited her past record as a bad thing. I would say Talib Rashid, but her seat is also an issue and she's still a new Rep. Same for AOC and others. You have to be very careful with who you pic here.

1. VP has to be POC, nominally the person would be black, but you do want the latino vote to.

2. Must be a woman, this would rule out Castro who I thought could make inroads for the Latino community given they like Sanders.

3. Needs to be progressive. It has to be somebody who can be seen on the side of the voter who wants something more than center left.

So question is, who fits those qualities?

I don’t think any of these assumptions are correct to be honest. One is pidgeonholed by Biden saying he would do it, another assumes progressives will be moved by you, another assumes POC’s would be moved by the pick.

[PaulBullion]

Let's just admit it. He wants a full on coronation and for us surfs and peasants to be bowing and scraping to King Donald the first. That's what he wants. What he's forgetting is that monarchy tends to be disposed of.

Didn't you forget the m in smurfs?

[ed2962]

No point in taking unnecessary risks -- which is why I'm open to Kloubachar as well.

It would also be wise to choose someone who has the necessary experience in politics and Congress to act as president if anything should happen to Biden or should he choose to step down from his post.

Kamala's Senate seat is safe -- I don't know enough about Minnesota to say whether the same is true for Kloubachar.



Most of the black people I've spoken to have no problem with her and those who are educated on politics actually see her as a good choice.

The only place I saw any real criticism of her was from online Sanders supporters but that applies to every Democratic candidate.

Thing is, these days not having decades of experience in Washington is actually a draw for a lot of voters in the general. A lot of those folks are against what they feel is the status quo.

Check out the comments section on say a Roland Martin clip about her. It's full of folks criticizing her for playing up her minority status, locking up black men as a prosecutor, marrying a white man, pandering by claiming to smoke weed listening to Snoop...these aren't white Bernie Bros saying this stuff.

[XPac]

They've got some problematic attitudes on race in China.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...advert-outrage

Geez... that's all kinds of messed up.

I guess in China they don't have to worry about the backlash to that sort of thing.

[aja_christopher]

Thing is, these days not having decades of experience in Washington is actually a draw for a lot of voters in the general. A lot of those folks are against what they feel is the status quo.

Check out the comments section on say a Roland Martin clip about her. It's full of folks criticizing her for playing up her minority status, locking up black men as a prosecutor, marrying a white man, pandering by claiming to smoke weed listening to Snoop...these aren't white Bernie Bros saying this stuff.

Just because some choose to be ignorant doesn't mean it should be the status quo -- the election of Trump has taught many voters that fact.

I couldn't care less if some voters don't like Kamala because she's a prosecutor especially since that's one of the main reasons I like her.

It's not about finding the perfect candidate, the most popular candidate or the most "black" candidate -- it's about nominating the most qualified candidate who can do the job that he or she is supposed to do once elected into office.

Harris fits that profile -- not exclusively, but more so than most of the other nominees given his specifications and needs.

Even if your criticism is that she's a "cop" then who better to take down a criminal cabal like the Republican party.

On a side note, when you bring up her marrying a white man I can't help but wonder what they might think of Misty Knight.