All purpose news and politics thread part v: The quickening

[Tami]

Shake Shack, Ruth's Chris and other chain restaurants got big PPP loans when small businesses couldn't

San Francisco (CNN Business)For local D.C. bakery DC Sweet Potato Cake, $23,000 would have gone a long way.

The bakery, known for its eponymous little desserts, sought a Small Business Administration Covid-19 relief loan intended to keep its seven workers, including four full-timers, on payroll. The money would have given the bakery a fighting chance to complete an 11,000-cake order -- a lifeline tossed out by one of its grocery partners.

Instead, on Friday, co-owner April Richardson advised three of her workers to file for unemployment.

n fewer than two weeks, the funds in the Paycheck Protection Program (PPP), a $349 billion stimulus effort heralded as a means to help the nation's small businesses pay their workers and keep their operations running, were exhausted. Proprietors like Richardson, however, didn't even get a taste of the spoils: Her rejection letter came midday Saturday.

In recent days, it's been revealed how large chunks of the funds were gobbled up by chain restaurants, hoteliers and publicly traded corporations.

Apparently Shake Shack is returning it's money after the article came out. Shame the other big businesses aren't going to do the same. The money was never meant for them.

[Tami]

Pro-gun activists using Facebook groups to push anti-quarantine protests

A trio of far-right, pro-gun provocateurs is behind some of the largest Facebook groups calling for anti-quarantine protests around the country, offering the latest illustration that some seemingly organic demonstrations are being engineered by a network of conservative activists.

The Facebook groups target Wisconsin, Ohio, Pennsylvania and New York, and they appear to be the work of Ben Dorr, the political director of a group called “Minnesota Gun Rights,” and his siblings, Christopher and Aaron. By Sunday, the groups had roughly 200,000 members combined, and they continued to expand quickly, days after President Trump endorsed such protests by suggesting citizens should “liberate” their states.

The Dorr brothers manage a slew of pro-gun groups across a wide range of states, from Iowa to Minnesota to New York, and seek primarily to discredit organizations like the National Rifle Association as being too compromising on gun safety. Minnesota Gun Rights, for instance, describes itself as the state’s “no-compromise gun rights organization.”

[Tami]

Trump, Head of Government, Leans Into Antigovernment Message

First he was the self-described “wartime president.” Then he trumpeted the “total” authority of the federal government. But in the past few days, President Trump has nurtured protests against state-issued stay-at-home orders aimed at curtailing the spread of the coronavirus.

Hurtling from one position to another is consistent with Mr. Trump’s approach to the presidency over the past three years. Even when external pressures and stresses appear to change the dynamics that the country is facing, Mr. Trump remains unbowed, altering his approach for a day or two, only to return to nursing grievances.

Not even the president’s re-election campaign can harness him: His team is often reactive to his moods and whims, trying but not always succeeding in steering him in a particular direction. Now, with Mr. Trump’s poll numbers falling after a rally-around-the-leader bump, he is road-testing a new turn on a familiar theme — veering into messages aimed at appealing to Americans whose lives have been disrupted by the stay-at-home orders.

Whether his latest theme will be effective for him is an open question: In an NBC/Wall Street Journal poll released on Sunday, just 36 percent of voters said they generally trusted what Mr. Trump says about the coronavirus.

[WestPhillyPunisher]

Trump, Head of Government, Leans Into Antigovernment Message

Unless I missed something, Trump yammered for citizens in states run by Democratic governors to LIBERATE, including Michigan as he's in a hissy fit with Gretchen Whitmer. I'm surprised Trump hasn't called for people to LIBERATE more states run by Democrats like New Jersey, Pennsylvania and especially New York as Andrew Cuomo has called him on the carpet more than once, and President Snowflake doesn't handle criticism at all well. And, of course, Republicans are keeping mum over the disgusting things Trump said when they're not kissing his ass and agreeing with his actions like Pence has done.

[Steel Inquisitor]

With the cars and gas stoves argument, the source isn't that important. If the point isn't persuasive, the question would be why: Do you think the United States would accept new inventions with the casualty rates of cars and gas stoves, assuming they were as useful? Or would we be able to get greater safety at minimal cost by insisting on higher standards with daring new innovations?

This isn't a good analogy since we're discussing peoples lives, not widgets from a factory. This is about death, and everyone must be careful or they will be at risk for dying. I didn't bring up the Black Plague for no reason, all civilisation is in a stage of lock down at the moment because they don't want to die from a virus. Millions will likely die, and the numbers go up when more people choose to endanger their lives. To make matters worse this won't be solved quickly because of various governments, like Trump's, sabotaging the effort and being stupidly negligent. Which equals more people spreading the disease. So even when we get a cure, actions like Trump will do make it harder to knock it out for good since viruses evolve and create new strains. Your and your family's very lives is at stake. Personally, I wouldn't be willing to bet mine against Covid-19. This isn't a theory, this isn't about economics, this is about being alive when this is all over.

As for the point on potential, the overwhelming majority of Americans would survive. If ten percent of Americans only reach half their potential, that might not be a worthwhile tradeoff to extending the lives of 0.67% of the population.

That's very cold, Mets. Peoples lives shouldn't be put in danger as though they were chips in a Poker game. And you have no way of knowing the consequences of those actions, whose to say the numbers wouldn't be reversed or worse? Do you understand that you may be among them if you're wrong? That's why it should be illegal for people to deliberately form large crowds - they become vectors for this virus and will pass it onto whoever they interact with. Death isn't to be bargained with.

[InformationGeek]

Update with former Rep. Sean Duffy. It's one last thing you can update with him WBE before you retire his profile.

A protest over Governor Tony Evers' extension of the 'Safer at Home' order took place in Mosinee on Sunday.

On Thursday, Gov. Evers extended the Safer at Home order to last until May 26th. It was orginally set to expire on April 24th.

It's become one of the most important debates in modern American history. How to balance the interest of public health during the covid-19 pandemic, with restarting a battered economy.

People there shared a similar message, saying many businesses won't survive much longer under these conditions.

"Over the course of the last three weeks, four weeks, we're seeing that we're not getting the same kind of outbreaks that they have in New York, or in Milwaukee,” said former seventh district representative Sean Duffy. “And if we don't get back to work soon, we're not going to have jobs to go back to. We have small businesses that are going to fail, when those businesses fail, people don't have jobs to go back and use those resources to feed their family and pay their mortgage.

“So because we're different, I think we should have a different plan than New York. And I think Governor Evers is at a one size fits all policy, which is we should do what other states are doing around the country, when we're very different in Wisconsin. "

Signs at the event asked for people to respect others who chose to socially distance and wear masks, but the large majority of those in attendance were not wearing protective face wear, and much of the crowd was all gathered close together.

"First of all, I think there should have been some more social distancing, and there probably should have been a few more masks,” Duffy said. “That would have been a little more appropriate, if you're not going to stand away from people, you should have a mask on.”

“But this is the risk with bad policy. When you don't think you have the risk in central Wisconsin like other parts of the country, but you have overburdened some regulation, people kind of throw the whole thing out. And if you don't trust your government to do the right thing on policy, you don't start doing anything."

Duffy was one of several speakers at the event. Many people traveled from hours away to be in Mosinee today, and expect a large amount of those at today's rally to also be in Madison for a similar protest there scheduled to take place this Friday.

I should remind you all, he retired early because his new child was born with medical conditions that needed attention, like holes in her heart. While his kid is doing fine now, he is irrationally putting his newborn, his other kids, and wife in major danger by attending this rally. What a f**king moron.

[InformationGeek]

Other GOP stupidity.

NEW: GOP State Rep. Rod Pelton says he won’t attend today’s anti-stay-home order protests at the Capitol today but he supports them. “You can't expect people to peacefully sit back and let their freedom be taken away,” Pelton wrote on Facebook. #9News #COVID19Colorado

[JackDaw]

Peoples lives shouldn't be put in danger as though they were chips in a Poker game. And you have no way of knowing the consequences of those actions, whose to say the numbers wouldn't be reversed or worse? Do you understand that you may be among them if you're wrong? That's why it should be illegal for people to deliberately form large crowds - they become vectors for this virus and will pass it onto whoever they interact with. Death isn't to be bargained with.

I’m surprised any government is allowing large gatherings at the moment. (I live in UK. All large gatherings are banned. And general requirement is to reduce going out to essential purposes, including one period of exercise...and at all times to keep t least 2 metres away from other people, apart from people in own household. I’d say that this policy was about right for now....but a lot of the detail is proving difficult, of course.)

However, I wouldn’t necessarily dismiss a desire to get economy moving again at some point as putting money before people. Being out of work, limited opportunity for exercise, etc, etc do have some impact on mental health...which in turn can be life shortening for some people.

It’s never going to be as easy as finding a solution that doesn’t cost lifes. It’s bound to be trying to find one that minimises loss of life. I don’t envy the lot of senior politicians on this one...it’s a horrendously complex issue.

[Tendrin]

https://twitter.com/Tylerjoelb/statu...34131685052418

Republican State Rep. Nino Vitale attended today's protest at the Ohio Statehouse and gave an interview w/polemicist Ohio Gun Owners group.

Vitale: gov't should not work to protect Ohioans' lives because death is "inevitable."

Oh, WBE-EEEeeeeeee.

Dorr later encounters woman who says she "works for Candice Keller." Keller's a rep running for state senate who blamed the Dayton shooting on Obama/gay marriage.

Dorr takes delight in a sign calling the
@OHdeptofhealth
director "Abortion Amy"

I think you already got Keller but I dunno about Nino... ugggghh.

[PwrdOn]

Alright, since I’m not allowed to think for myself or have diverging opinions can you tell me which publications you get your information from so I know which way I’m supposed to think please?

I'm not sure you know what a diverging opinion is, if you think being a white Australian blaming China for everything somehow qualifies as one

You weren't around a lot of liberals. That was all we discussed when it was on, including on this very forum. Categorising every American in that time frame as being totally on board with Bush is completely wrong by every metric, and shows a willingly not to address the nation isn't determined by the worst of our neighbours.

Edit: What's your opinion on Russia's annexation of Ukraine?

Maybe that's what it was like in Communist circles, in liberal ones we were furious and frustrated. Clearly your'e forgetting the protests, and public opposition in multiple countries.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...aq-war-marches

I remember that OTHER countries were protesting America trying to drag them into the Iraq War, but there was nary a peep about it here, whether in the media or the public. There was pretty much universal consensus that Saddam was somehow connected to Al Qaeda and that an invasion was totally justified, and that any country that didn't get with the program was just as much an enemy as they were. Remember freedom fries?

[PaulBullion]

Other GOP stupidity.

In Brazil, President Bolsonaro actually cheered on the protesters, joining in chants.

[Tendrin]

I remember that OTHER countries were protesting America trying to drag them into the Iraq War, but there was nary a peep about it here, whether in the media or the public. There was pretty much universal consensus that Saddam was somehow connected to Al Qaeda and that an invasion was totally justified, and that any country that didn't get with the program was just as much an enemy as they were. Remember freedom fries?

Protests took place all across the United States of America with CBS reporting that 150 U.S. cities had protests.[24] According to the World Socialist Web Site, protests took place in 225 different communities.[19]

Nary a peep.

[Kirby101]

I'm not sure you know what a diverging opinion is, if you think being a white Australian blaming China for everything somehow qualifies as one



I remember that OTHER countries were protesting America trying to drag them into the Iraq War, but there was nary a peep about it here, whether in the media or the public. There was pretty much universal consensus that Saddam was somehow connected to Al Qaeda and that an invasion was totally justified, and that any country that didn't get with the program was just as much an enemy as they were. Remember freedom fries?

Bull hockey. In 2003 I was in a massive protest of close to a million people in New York City against the coming Iraq War. The media gave it about a tenth the coverage they are now giving the idiot COVID "protesters". Many of us knew it was all lies from the start.

Feb, 2003

[Steel Inquisitor]

I'm not sure you know what a diverging opinion is, if you think being a white Australian blaming China for everything somehow qualifies as one

sammy wasn't blaming China for everything, do you think the Chinese government's done anything wrong about containing Covid-19?

I remember that OTHER countries were protesting America trying to drag them into the Iraq War, but there was nary a peep about it here, whether in the media or the public. There was pretty much universal consensus that Saddam was somehow connected to Al Qaeda and that an invasion was totally justified, and that any country that didn't get with the program was just as much an enemy as they were. Remember freedom fries?

The others have gone over the protests you're ignoring, thank you everyone.

The highlighted portion are Republican talking points, we're discussing Democrats. This is "Both Sidesing," your argument hinges on Democrats being exactly like Republicans, on a forum of Democrats and people who sympathize with Democrats.

So you're ok with Putin taking Ukraine. Interesting.

[Tami]

Unless I missed something, Trump yammered for citizens in states run by Democratic governors to LIBERATE, including Michigan as he's in a hissy fit with Gretchen Whitmer. I'm surprised Trump hasn't called for people to LIBERATE more states run by Democrats like New Jersey, Pennsylvania and especially New York as Andrew Cuomo has called him on the carpet more than once, and President Snowflake doesn't handle criticism at all well. And, of course, Republicans are keeping mum over the disgusting things Trump said when they're not kissing his ass and agreeing with his actions like Pence has done.

New Jersey is on the target list, only I don't think they can get away with it here as easily as in other states.