All purpose news and politics thread part v: The quickening

[aja_christopher]

I believe you should stop saying that like it's some kind of magical talisman - All I hear is an echo of Trump's "Fake News" when you say that - or in other words....

He's on an ad hominem rant about ad hominems.

Instead of just addressing the issue of Republicans suppressing African-American votes like an objective contributor.

I'd mention Republican hypocrisy again but at this point it's more than redundant.

[jetengine]

Just answer the damn question Mets. Its not hard

[JCAll]

He's on an ad hominem rant about ad hominems.

Instead of just addressing the issue of Republicans suppressing African-American votes like an objective contributor.

I'd mention Republican hypocrisy again but at this point it's more than redundant.

What answer are you looking for? The Republican line for decades is that they suppress minority votes because minorities vote Democrat and not because of racism. If you press harder about Rebublicans suppressing minoritees being the reason they vote Democrat, you might get another line about Democrats only standing up for minorities because of political gain also. You're never going to get the answer your want here.

[aja_christopher]

What answer are you looking for? The Republican line for decades is that they suppress minority votes because minorities vote Democrat and not because of racism. If you press harder about Rebublicans suppressing minoritees being the reason they vote Democrat, you might get another line about Democrats only standing up for minorities because of political gain also. You're never going to get the answer your want here.

I didn't want an answer so much as an admission since he often claims to want to have an honest dialogue about these issues.

Trust -- I have no delusions about why many Republicans do what they do nor why they are reluctant to talk about it openly.

Reagan already cleared that up for us, regardless.

[PwrdOn]

Work is an essential part of life.

It shapes our identity, it fills our days and gives many of our lives meaning. The psychological impact of unemployment is usually vast.

There is a tiny percentage of people who can happily live without work.

Worrying about people not going to work because they get unemployment benefits is just not rooted in reality. It's a conservative trope, and it's misanthropic.

We really need to get away from this mode of thinking though. Work has no inherent value, it is only meaningful if you are actually contributing positively to society in some way, and there are huge numbers of people nowadays that couldn't make that claim with a straight face even on a good day, never mind with the virus going around. Ironically it's the people that everyone else looks down upon that do all of the actual heavy lifting to keep the economy running smoothly. I doubt any of those Amazon warehouse workers would say they find meaning in their work and most would probably be happy to stay home and collect a check for doing so, and they'd be right to do that.

What answer are you looking for? The Republican line for decades is that they suppress minority votes because minorities vote Democrat and not because of racism. If you press harder about Rebublicans suppressing minoritees being the reason they vote Democrat, you might get another line about Democrats only standing up for minorities because of political gain also. You're never going to get the answer your want here.

It goes a lot deeper than just wanted to hurt the Democrats or even racism. Americans have always had this existential fear that, if black people were to ever gain any real political power, that they'd use it to exact their revenge on whites which naturally justifies employing every dirty trick in the book to ensure that they never do. And moderate whites have always gone along with this because their sympathy toward blacks is far outweighed by the prospect of being lumped in with all the racists when the reckoning comes. Of course, the fact that dozens of countries have seen peaceful transitions to black rule doesn't do much to allay those fears, and unless some fundamental change happen in the white psyche, which I'm hardly banking on, it's tough to envision black people or any other minorities having any real influence in this country.

[shooshoomanjoe]

We really need to get away from this mode of thinking though. Work has no inherent value, it is only meaningful if you are actually contributing positively to society in some way, and there are huge numbers of people nowadays that couldn't make that claim with a straight face even on a good day, never mind with the virus going around. Ironically it's the people that everyone else looks down upon that do all of the actual heavy lifting to keep the economy running smoothly. I doubt any of those Amazon warehouse workers would say they find meaning in their work and most would probably be happy to stay home and collect a check for doing so, and they'd be right to do that.

Commies today sound like lazy whiners. Work is need four society to function. Not everyone can master a trade. Who'll fix your toilet? Who'll change your spark plugs? Who'll replace your carpeting? Who'll slaughter or grow your food? Who'll print your comic books?

[PaulBullion]

We really need to get away from this mode of thinking though. Work has no inherent value, it is only meaningful if you are actually contributing positively to society in some way, and there are huge numbers of people nowadays that couldn't make that claim with a straight face even on a good day, never mind with the virus going around. Ironically it's the people that everyone else looks down upon that do all of the actual heavy lifting to keep the economy running smoothly. I doubt any of those Amazon warehouse workers would say they find meaning in their work and most would probably be happy to stay home and collect a check for doing so, and they'd be right to do that.

Well, social science research says you are wrong. But you have every right to be, and remain, wrong about issues, of course.

[Zelena]

We really need to get away from this mode of thinking though. Work has no inherent value, it is only meaningful if you are actually contributing positively to society in some way, and there are huge numbers of people nowadays that couldn't make that claim with a straight face even on a good day, never mind with the virus going around. Ironically it's the people that everyone else looks down upon that do all of the actual heavy lifting to keep the economy running smoothly. I doubt any of those Amazon warehouse workers would say they find meaning in their work and most would probably be happy to stay home and collect a check for doing so, and they'd be right to do that.

We are unhappy if we don't feel being a part of the society, though… And working is a large part of this society.
Work conditions and recognition are a different matter. Of course, if it is akin to modern slavery, it is not quite 'working' as working should help people to be proud of themselves and of their achievements.
I remember when people were devastated when their factory closed…

[PaulBullion]

We are unhappy if we don't feel being a part of the society, though… And working is a large part of this society.
Work conditions and recognition are a different matter. Of course, if it is akin to modern slavery, it is not quite 'working' as working should help people to be proud of themselves and of their achievements.
I remember when people were devastated when their factory closed…

Heck, look at coal miners.

[Mister Mets]

Work is an essential part of life.

It shapes our identity, it fills our days and gives many of our lives meaning. The psychological impact of unemployment is usually vast.

There is a tiny percentage of people who can happily live without work.

Worrying about people not going to work because they get unemployment benefits is just not rooted in reality. It's a conservative trope, and it's misanthropic.

There's a conservative trope that work is meaningful, and it is thus a problem to create incentives for people not to work, such as systems where they can get paid more to stay home.

I do think work is meaningful, but that salaries perform an important function.

Even if people will be working if they weren't paid to do it, they wouldn't necessarily be doing the same jobs or working the same amount. It might be more enjoyable to be a part-time assistant librarian in a quiet small town than an oncologist.

[aja_christopher]

It goes a lot deeper than just wanted to hurt the Democrats or even racism. Americans have always had this existential fear that, if black people were to ever gain any real political power, that they'd use it to exact their revenge on whites which naturally justifies employing every dirty trick in the book to ensure that they never do. And moderate whites have always gone along with this because their sympathy toward blacks is far outweighed by the prospect of being lumped in with all the racists when the reckoning comes. Of course, the fact that dozens of countries have seen peaceful transitions to black rule doesn't do much to allay those fears, and unless some fundamental change happen in the white psyche, which I'm hardly banking on, it's tough to envision black people or any other minorities having any real influence in this country.

You don't have to "envision" it -- it's going to happen due to demographics regardless.

If not in the next generation then the one after or after that.

It's inevitable because we "minorities" are Americans, whether others choose to recognize us as equals or otherwise.

[PwrdOn]

We are unhappy if we don't feel being a part of the society, though… And working is a large part of this society.
Work conditions and recognition are a different matter. Of course, if it is akin to modern slavery, it is not quite 'working' as working should help people to be proud of themselves and of their achievements.
I remember when people were devastated when their factory closed…

Invariably though, it's the people working in slave-like conditions that end up doing all of the actual work. The only reason people are sad when their factories close is because they can't put food on the table otherwise, and it's not so easy to just get another job when you've just been doing that one thing your entire life. You'd imagine that most coal miners would be happy to stay home IF you paid them to, and given that coal mining is almost certainly a net negative to the planet, wouldn't it be better to do that than to force them to work in order to produce something we don't want or need?

Commies today sound like lazy whiners. Work is need four society to function. Not everyone can master a trade. Who'll fix your toilet? Who'll change your spark plugs? Who'll replace your carpeting? Who'll slaughter or grow your food? Who'll print your comic books?

You really think that any of those people would turn down generous unemployment benefits to drag themselves to work because they find some kind of meaning in it? Of course, that's a moot point because most of that kind of work has long been offloaded to undocumented immigrants anyway, who by your argument should be the most highly paid and respected members of our society because they do the most vital work, but somehow it doesn't turn out that way.

[Mister Mets]

Show me where it says I need an "invitation" to question why your party actively suppresses African-American votes to win elections.

And why you support said party knowing this.

I never claimed that you need an invitation to question something. I haven't even claimed that you're not allowed to make ad hominems.

People are going to make logical fallacies on some occasions. When that happens, it is fair to point that out.

He's on an ad hominem rant about ad hominems.

Instead of just addressing the issue of Republicans suppressing African-American votes like an objective contributor.

I'd mention Republican hypocrisy again but at this point it's more than redundant.

It might be an ad hominem on my end if I couldn't reasonably think you were engaging in an ad hominem the first time.

It remains on-topic in subsequent posts, because the comments are about ad hominem, in the context of whether this is an appropriate technique in a political discussion.

If you posted about a different topic here in response to someone else, and I accused you of making ad hominems in the past, that might very well be an ad hominem about ad hominems.

[aja_christopher]

There's a conservative trope that work is meaningful, and it is thus a problem to create incentives for people not to work, such as systems where they can get paid more to stay home.

Unemployment lasts around six months and then it is exhausted.

You can't get it again until after you've worked at another job long enough to qualify again if you lose said job.

It is not an incentive not to find a job -- it is money provided to help you survive between jobs.

It is a redeployment of the taxes you and your employer paid to the governement for exactly this kind of emergency.

I'll add that people tend to need lots of unemployment when Republicans get into the White House.

Logically it follows that the solution to paying out less unemployment is likely electing less Republicans to office.

-----
"The unemployment rate doubled under Bush. It's fallen by more than one-third under Obama."

https://www.vox.com/2015/11/7/968478...ent-rate-obama

"Trump administration warns of 20 percent unemployment rate"

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/con...-rate-n1162601

[aja_christopher]

I never claimed that you need an invitation to question something. I haven't even claimed that you're not allowed to make ad hominems.

People are going to make logical fallacies on some occasions. When that happens, it is fair to point that out.

It might be an ad hominem on my end if I couldn't reasonably think you were engaging in an ad hominem the first time.

It remains on-topic in subsequent posts, because the comments are about ad hominem, in the context of whether this is an appropriate technique in a political discussion.

If you posted about a different topic here in response to someone else, and I accused you of making ad hominems in the past, that might very well be an ad hominem about ad hominems.

Mets -- we're done with this ridiculous semantic nonsense because this is like watching a bad parody of Ben Shapiro.

Reagan already answered the question since you wouldn't.