All purpose news and politics thread part v: The quickening

[Theleviathan]

As opposed to all of the good that "Business As Usual..." Democrats have gotten us over the years.

Setting the stage for George W. to be within spitting distance of a Presidency as an obvious example. Never mind not taking Trump seriously.

I'd rather back Sanders taking a serious run at making actual change than the sorts of things that the other Democrats in the running have delivered in the past.

Could I back the sort of "Treading Water..." that most of the other Dems(outside of Gabbard and Bloomberg. Don't want to have to think about voting for either of them.) will likely be doing should they win?

Sure.

That said, why would that ever be the plan going in?

A totally valid stance. Only problem is, for some reason, you chose to spend 3 pages denying exactly this when I pointed it out. Yeah, he's principled. He won't be business as usual. He won't compromise. He also might get squat done as a result, much like his political career. It's a gamble. A similar gamble, only reverse, is true for a few of the other candidates.

[Tami]

Impeachment live updates: Trump excoriates Pelosi and Democrats in letter to House speaker, calls impeachment ‘declaring open war on American Democracy’

Letter from President Trump to House Speaker Pelosi PDF version

I hear that this is Trump's temper tantrum. I haven't read it myself yet.

[Kirby101]

Impeachment live updates: Trump excoriates Pelosi and Democrats in letter to House speaker, calls impeachment ‘declaring open war on American Democracy’

Letter from President Trump to House Speaker Pelosi PDF version

I hear that this is Trump's temper tantrum. I haven't read it myself yet.

There is zero chance that Trump wrote any of it.

[The Whovian]

As a Sanders supporter, I have to ask.

What is it(exactly, if you could) that you saw that suggests that Sanders might?

Sometimes I get the feeling that he doesn't want to rock the boat against the establishment. In 2016, he had a chance to go hard after Hilary in the primaries and win the nomination, but never did, and eventually lost to her.

Fast forward this time around and he seems to be doing it again during the debates. I just want to see him go hard after Biden and take the lead, but when he gets the chance, he steps lightly.

Also, I didn't like the recent Cenk dust up. Bernie could have stood his ground, and said "No, I refuse to denounce Cenk for something he said 20 years ago. I still endorse him, so go get stuffed".

[Tami]

There is zero chance that Trump wrote any of it.

I doubt he 'wrote' it, but he probably dictated it to someone else who put it in writing. If this was written by a sane adult, it wouldn't be so bizarre.

[The Whovian]

I would suggest that Bernie has decades of evidence that he doesn't cave or compromise much. There are advantages and disadvantages to that certainly.

You'll have some here who will swear Bernie will enact all of his plans because he's got some brilliant, heretofore unseen in Congress, strategy for it. But what Bernie has shown is that he is passionately principled by what he believes in much to his credit.

Thank you. I appreciate that

[WestPhillyPunisher]

Impeachment live updates: Trump excoriates Pelosi and Democrats in letter to House speaker, calls impeachment ‘declaring open war on American Democracy’

Letter from President Trump to House Speaker Pelosi PDF version

I hear that this is Trump's temper tantrum. I haven't read it myself yet.

I for one find it patently laughable that Trump gives even one half of a fuck about democracy. The only thing he cares about is remaining in power, Constitution be damned, knowing he’ll be put on trial after he leaves office, a trial that could end with his going to prison. Trump mistakenly believes being president puts him above the law and he hates being hounded by the Democrats over his dirty dealings in the Ukraine mess, that letter was just more whining about being subject to rules he despises.

[TheManInBlack]

For now, i'll take my chances with GW over Trumpism. At least GW wasn't colluding with Putin and trying to destroy the country.

If you think Trump's been worse for the country than Dubya, you either weren't old enough to remember what actually happened back then, or have a very short attention span, as other posters have noted. We're still suffering under Bush's disastrous foreign policy and military interventionism more than a decade later. Maybe instead of only looking at today's media rage and click-bait sensationalism (which has grown ten-fold since the turn of the century when Dubya was elected) you should actually look at what they've done. Trump's no saint--he's a liar and a crook like all politicians--but Bush was a freaking demon.

[Tami]

If you think Trump's been worse for the country than Dubya, you either weren't old enough to remember what actually happened back then, or have a very short attention span, as other posters have noted. We're still suffering under Bush's disastrous foreign policy and military interventionism more than a decade later. Maybe instead of only looking at today's media rage and click-bait sensationalism (which has grown ten-fold since the turn of the century when Dubya was elected) you should actually look at what they've done. Trump's no saint--he's a liar and a crook like all politicians--but Bush was a freaking demon.

Bush was bad, really bad. I know all about what happened, especially post 9/11. Dick Cheney probably was the driving force behind most of the insanity, including the CIA Torture and the never ending wars and the faltering economy.

But as bad as all that is, the US still remained in one piece.

Trump is just as bad, worse since he's selling out the country to Putin. He's dismantling the government, destroying the nation, not to mention the harm he is causing to immigrants, to allies like the Kurds, and the support he gives to White Supremacists and dictators. Not to mention the harm he is doing to the planet as a whole (Climate Change).

[numberthirty]

Sometimes I get the feeling that he doesn't want to rock the boat against the establishment. In 2016, he had a chance to go hard after Hilary in the primaries and win the nomination, but never did, and eventually lost to her.

Fast forward this time around and he seems to be doing it again during the debates. I just want to see him go hard after Biden and take the lead, but when he gets the chance, he steps lightly.

Also, I didn't like the recent Cenk dust up. Bernie could have stood his ground, and said "No, I refuse to denounce Cenk for something he said 20 years ago. I still endorse him, so go get stuffed".

On Cenk, deciding not to endorse him is not the same as denouncing him. There's a very real difference there.

As for what you seem to be saying about the primaries, I personally think that the approach you are backing is what hurt HRC last time out. She said that Sanders wasn't a "Real" Democrat.

That sort of thing is something that you are going to have to be able to mend if you intend on winning a General Election where you probably need most of the possible Democratic Party base and some independents/non-voters in order to put that win together.

I don't know that going completely "Hard..."(or however someone would want to characterize it) would leave any nominee in a position to be able to get those votes.

[aja_christopher]

As for what you seem to be saying about the primaries, I personally think that the approach you are backing is what hurt HRC last time out. She said that Sanders wasn't a "Real" Democrat.

"Sanders: I Don't Consider Myself a Democrat"

https://thehill.com/homenews/campaig...elf-a-democrat

If you think Trump's been worse for the country than Dubya, you either weren't old enough to remember what actually happened back then, or have a very short attention span, as other posters have noted. We're still suffering under Bush's disastrous foreign policy and military interventionism more than a decade later. Maybe instead of only looking at today's media rage and click-bait sensationalism (which has grown ten-fold since the turn of the century when Dubya was elected) you should actually look at what they've done. Trump's no saint--he's a liar and a crook like all politicians--but Bush was a freaking demon.

Let's just agree that the modern Republican party -- whether under Nixon, Clinton, Bush, Obama or Trump -- is the worst thing to happen to America since the Civil War, should be removed from power as soon as possible, and the numerous criminals in the party should be jailed for their crimes.

[numberthirty]

"Sanders: I Don't Consider Myself a Democrat"

https://thehill.com/homenews/campaig...elf-a-democrat

Seeing what Sanders says as the central issue is missing the forest for the trees.

While I could pretty easily post the video again, HRC was booed for saying that Sanders wasn't a "Real" Democrat(well, that and saying "You know I'm right."). If you are being booed, you are not solidifying your support. You are only creating issues you might not be able to overcome later on.

[aja_christopher]

Seeing what Sanders says as the central issue is missing the forest for the trees.

That's your modus operandi, not mine.

I take him at his word -- if he says he's not a Democrat, then he's not a Democrat and there's nothing wrong with Hillary pointing out that truth in an election.

The real issue here is that whatever reason you can find to hate on Hillary you will find it, regardless -- even if she's only repeating what Sanders' himself said.

[worstblogever]

That's your modus operandi, not mine.

Also, having a knack for being a person who argues against Democratic policies, but tells the Democrats on this forum who they should be voting for. The guy who doesn't see himself as a Democrat, and has a 30 year career of being all talk and no results.

[aja_christopher]

Also, having a knack for being a person who argues against Democratic policies, but tells the Democrats on this forum who they should be voting for. The guy who doesn't see himself as a Democrat, and has a 30 year career of being all talk and no results.

The guy who lost by millions of votes to the person he keeps trying to criticize years after the primaries ended.

If she was that bad, then it speaks volumes about Sanders himself that he lost to her by that many votes.