All purpose news and politics thread part v: The quickening

[superduperman]

‘I don’t believe in violence, but…’: Trump’s most rabid supporters warn of ‘civil war’ if he loses in 2020

There's no such thing as a white supremacist? So Richard Spencer is...what? When you're threatening to commit murder if your side loses an election, you're officially the bad guys.

[Mister Mets]

WRT “In a free country, it is difficult to deal with propaganda and social media manipulation. I'm eager to hear any workable solutions.”:

Stop supporting the party that has a propaganda arm that spreads blatant lies about science, sexuality, religion, politics, life, and everything else? Fox News and it’s various associated channels and websites trade in falsehoods and propaganda CONSTANTLY. DANGEROUS falsehoods (often obfuscated begins euphamisms and dog whistles, to maintain ‘respectability’), like “Some are saying that Barack HUSSEIN Obama is a secret Kenyan Muslim Brotherhood Manchurian Candidate, not a REAL American” and “Trump was chosen by Jesus to make America white again!”. And that’s when they don’t omit or deliberately ignore and avoid informing their viewers about things that don’t conform to their politics. The Republican Party benefits from deliberately misinforming their base, though, so they stripped away every regulation intended to protect the public from the VERY THING right wing media fills the airwaves with now: partisan idiocy, propaganda, and misinformation. You can chart the radicalization and rise to power of the white nationalist base of the Republican Party with the rise of right wing media spewing bigotry and hate and fear back to Reagan’s removal of regulations on broadcasting at the behest of his hard right handlers.

So, there’s a place we can start. Make the news publicly owned again, not privately owned and for sale, and thus beholden to ‘shareholders’ and ‘owners’. We have literally been here before, in print media, back in the days of Hearst and his buddies. Rich, conservative men owning all outlets get to control the narrative. Those monopolies got broken up, but it wasn’t enough, because here we are again, only worse. So, we break up the monopolies on the media again, only this time, we create publicly owned news outlets, beholden to US, not the corporate owners, not the government. Something like OPB, but on a larger scale, and funded by taxpayer dollars we divert from paying off wealthy donors and blowing up brown people across the ocean and caging brown people here at home. (Republicans will HATE this. All of it.)

Then, we reinstate strict regulations on news outlets going forward, INCLUDING blogs that get categorized as ‘news’, like Drudge or Breitbart, before both became bloated monstrosities of white nationalism and homophobia. if you want to be labeled ‘NEWS’, you must present FACTS, and information that is both relevant and timely. Conspiracy theories are not facts. Propaganda is not facts. “Both sides”, when one side has facts and the other side has ignorance and/or lies, is not facts. If a thing IS, the news should not be forced to present ‘opposing thought’. To be clear, this is not in regards to matters of opinion, and news outlets absolutely SHOULD be free to present opinion pieces and editorials and the like. This in regards to things like ‘gay people exist, and deserve human rights’, or ‘the earth is a somewhat irregular sphere’. FACTS, that are not in dispute by any reasonable person, do not need to have ‘both sides’ presented. We don’t need to give Jenny McCarthy airtime to say ‘vaccines cause autism because durrdedurrderpiderp...’ that is not fact. It is not ‘opinion’. It is misinformation and doesn’t belong on the news.

To ensure this, each outlet should have an in-house fact checker department. Wanton disregard for the truth in pursuit of ‘ratings’ or in service to partisan politics would lead to fines for those found deliberately tainting the purpose of journalism. If it gets bad, there should be the potential of prison time for repeat offenders. Not in a ‘silence the truth’ sort of way, since this would require transparency at every level, to ensure public trust. But in a ‘punish lying liars trying to corrupt the discourse for nefarious reasons’ way. If one outlet is particularly bad, we could even have a policy for a complete washout and restaffing of the outlet, if needed.

We need to be able to TRUST the news to deliver unbiased, not-for-profit facts and information. right now, the right doesn’t trust anything that doesn’t reinforce their belief that Jesus wants them to own all the guns and burn all the coal and oil and styrofoam they can so that they can kill the homosexual Jew government when it comes to force interracial, gay Muslim marriage on them. The left is fragmented due to purity tests and loyalty to specific people over the concept of ‘unity’ we love talking about but rarely do anything to bring into reality. No one trusts any news outlet right now because they’re either owned by the Freemason Illuminati or they’re ‘not really progressive enough for my tastes...’. Maybe my specific ideas are problematic, fine. But tell me we wouldn’t benefit from a broad and comprehensive overhaul towards truth of our news media and how it operates? Isn’t that kind of benefit worth taxing wealthy assholes a bit more? Isn’t it worth diverting funds from endless war profiteering and death?

One of the complications is that it's much easier to create openings for new media outlets than to control existing media outlets. Creating a national version of Oregon Public Broadcasting won't prevent the broken up remnants of Fox News from creating new entities.

It may also be difficult to break up Fox News, as they have the argument that they have plenty of competitors and those competitors are probably going to be eager to prevent the precedent for anyone breaking them up. NBC wouldn't want the courts to split up NBC News, MSNBC, CNBC, NBC news radio and their various online programs.

Strict regulations on news outlets are going to be really difficult given the first amendment and all the judges who take freedom of the press seriously. We should also keep in mind the possibility that President Trump, Attorney General Bill Barr and Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell may be in a position to select the regulators, and the people who get to decide what counts as propaganda or conspiracy theories. What's to prevent Rachel Maddow for being arrested on the grounds that some of her commentary on Russia and Trump can be considered a conspiracy theory?

There is a legal tradition against ex post facto punishment, so no one would be able to prosecute anyone for things that occurred prior to the new regulations. There are plenty of conservative morons in the media who have terrible discipline, and will be unable to stick to regulations. But the major outlets like Fox News will have enough high-paid lawyers to instruct the talent on how to stick to the letter of the law.

You complain about dog whistles to maintain 'respectability' but that's going to be difficult for regulators to uncover, and you could easily have regulators going after your side, if they determine that criticism of Israel is antisemitic, or that comments about Christians count as religious bigotry.

As for your final questions, "tell me we wouldn’t benefit from a broad and comprehensive overhaul towards truth of our news media and how it operates? Isn’t that kind of benefit worth taxing wealthy assholes a bit more?" I think this level of government control over the press would have tremendous potential for disaster.

We really can't have this discussion anymore -- a person is not routinely dishonest just because they have a list of ten lies after eight years in office.

Ten known lies in eight years does not make one a routine liar and I really can't take you seriously when you continue to make statements like that.

All of your arguments come down to accusing the Democrats of wrongs both real and imagined -- mostly imagined -- instead of holding Republicans accountable for their actions, which are often far more corrupt and far less ethical. You focus on trying to brand Obama as "routinely dishonest" and Democrats as supportive of "open borders", while dodging issues of Republicans lies regarding tax cuts, deficits, voter suppression, foreign interference, climate change and family separation utilizing false equivalency and "both sides" ideology.

I can't even believe you'd try to make the argument that telling ten lies in eight years makes one "routinely dishonest" -- that telling an average of one lie a year makes one a routine liar.

I expect that kind of thing from 30 -- not from you, but it's time to adjust said expectations accordingly.

If the Washington Post makes a top ten list of lies, there's plenty that got left out.

https://thehill.com/opinion/white-ho...ies-and-frauds

[WestPhillyPunisher]

There's no such thing as a white supremacist? So Richard Spencer is...what? When you're threatening to commit murder if your side loses an election, you're officially the bad guys.

DING DING DING! You are correct!

[GindyPosts]

I think we'll hear about Tulsi running for Ross Perot's old party soon.

She's probably going to say the stupid rhetoric Perot was infamous for, to boot.

[GindyPosts]

‘I don’t believe in violence, but…’: Trump’s most rabid supporters warn of ‘civil war’ if he loses in 2020

I think the saddest part of the story is the fact that one of their most creative menu ideas is a pizza that just has the two most common meat options you can get. I'm not trying to discount the assholes they dredged out from God Knows Where at their "festival", but if a pizzeria decides to make a specialty pizza out of the combination of "pepperoni and sausage", I don't think I'd eat there.

[Tami]

I think the saddest part of the story is the fact that one of their most creative menu ideas is a pizza that just has the two most common meat options you can get. I'm not trying to discount the assholes they dredged out from God Knows Where at their "festival", but if a pizzeria decides to make a specialty pizza out of the combination of "pepperoni and sausage", I don't think I'd eat there.

It's the oldest sales trick in the book. Take something as common as dirt, rename it something that draws in the crowds, and they will buy it as if it was a rare delicacy from Mars.

[aja_christopher]

If the Washington Post makes a top ten list of lies, there's plenty that got left out.

More generalized allegations based solely on political bias -- everyone here knows it's ridiculous for you to claim Obama is a routine liar.

Especially in contrast to the Republican party, and especially under Trump.

I don't think even you believe what you're trying to sell others.

Your party's reverence of Trump tells the real story.

[Malvolio]

It's the oldest sales trick in the book. Take something as common as dirt, rename it something that draws in the crowds, and they will buy it as if it was a rare delicacy from Mars.

Sounds a lot like Trump Steaks, Trump Airlines, or a dozen other failed ventures.

[Theleviathan]

I probably missed someone else posting this but......holy ****!

[Tami]

At least 2 reportedly killed in Texas church shooting

At least two people were reportedly killed in a shooting inside a crowded church near Fort Worth, Texas, a terrifying scene captured on video Sunday morning.

It was not immediately clear what led to the shooting, but footage of the incident shows what appears to be a man shooting at least two people and then getting shot as he tried turning his weapon at the crowd.

[Tami]

Chuck Todd explains how uninformed journalists spread lies by asking stupid questions

NBC host Chuck Todd on Sunday examined how propaganda is spread by journalists asking uninformed questions.

In a special edition of Meet the Press focusing on propaganda in the media, Todd asked security analyst Clinton Watts about President Donald Trump’s conspiracy theory alleging that a Ukraine company interfered in the 2016 U.S. elections — which is false.

“You take a fact and you use a fact to propel the lie,” Watts said. “The truth has one voice but lies are infinite. You can continue to make more and more lies, which wears out anybody trying to rebut them.”

“It’s not just human beings, it’s news organizations,” Todd said before noting that journalists can spread false information by asking uninformed questions.

[PaulBullion]

I probably missed someone else posting this but......holy ****!

I think it is so brave of Mr. Mets that he keeps trying to change the party of Christian Taliban and (checks note) actual Nazis from within. Instead of taking the easy way out.

[Tami]

Saw it on Twitter



Putin Thanks Trump in Call For Anti-Terrorism Help, Kremlin Says

Russian President Vladimir Putin called U.S. President Donald Trump to thank him for intelligence that helped prevent terrorist acts in Russia, the Kremlin said in a statement.

The two leaders discussed further cooperation to combat terrorism and “other issues of mutual interest,” according to a Kremlin statement issued Sunday. The White House hasn’t confirmed the call.

Trump and Putin have had an unusually warm relationship, despite warnings from Republicans and Democrats that Russia is looking to meddle in U.S. affairs. Putin defended Trump by dismissing his impeachment by the House earlier this month.

The former KGB spy also denies that his country intervened in the 2016 presidential election to help get Trump elected. Trump has also downplayed findings from U.S. intelligence agencies and said he believes Putin.

Trump has spoken about his interactions with Putin in glowing terms. Putin in the past has repeated referred to Trump as “Donald,” while discussing their relations. The American leader this summer endorsed readmitting Russia into the Group of Seven economies and has often urged efforts to improve U.S. relations with the Kremlin.

[Tami]

Ukraine, eastern rebels swap prisoners in move to end war

MAIORSK CHECKPOINT, Ukraine -- Ukrainian forces and Russia-backed rebels in eastern Ukraine on Sunday exchanged 200 prisoners in a move aimed at ending their five-year war.

The swap at a checkpoint near the rebel-held city of Horlivka was part of an agreement brokered this month at a summit of the leaders of Ukraine, Russia, Germany and France.

According to figures from officials of the Donetsk and Luhansk People's republics — the two separatist governments in the rebel area — Ukraine turned over 124 people and the separatists freed 76.

Those released by Ukraine included five former members of the now-disbanded special police force Berkut who were charged in the killing of protesters in Kyiv in 2014, Ukrainian news site Hromadske quoted their lawyer, Igor Varfolomeyev, as saying.

The Security Service of Ukraine said the 76 freed by the rebels included 12 servicemen, two of whom had been held since 2015 after being ambushed while escorting a convoy of wounded out of the battle of Debaltseve, which destroyed much of the city.

[Tami]

Trump’s lawyers decided president could unilaterally take over Congress: report

Congress was supposed to be not just a co-equal branch of government to the president, they’re the first among the equals. But with a quick decision, President Donald Trump and his lawyers decided Trump woulc reign supreme.

The New York Times followed the timeline of Trump’s 84-day hold of Ukraine aide after Congress allocated it in a Sunday report, with the shocking revelation that his lawyers claimed he had the power to take over the role allocated to Congress.

“The president, the lawyers believed, could ignore the requirements of the Impoundment Control Act and continue to hold the aid by asserting constitutional commander in chief powers that give him authority over diplomacy,” reported The Times. “He could do so, they believed, if he determined that, based on existing circumstances, releasing the money would undermine military or diplomatic efforts.”