All purpose news and politics thread part v: The quickening

[Celgress]

Well, I'm not surprised. This is two weeks old but still hilarious. I once (about five years ago) watched CNN several times a day but the network is trash now. Even a former news junkie such as myself can't stand it for more than five minutes. I watch BBC News, DW News (German News in English), NHK News (Japan News in English) and the ABC Nightly News (most nights) instead.

[aja_christopher]

I didn't say everyone, but I do think most people in government, those I agree with and those I disagree with, generally do what they think is best for other people.

Your party actively tries to keep black people from voting and separates children from their mothers as a deterrent.

You still have yet to explain how these actions -- and rampant Republican racism, homophobia and Islamophobia -- are best "for the most people".

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"NC voter ID law written with ‘discriminatory intent,’ says judge who just struck it down"

"Racial discrimination was at least part of the motivation for a new voter ID law in North Carolina, a federal judge wrote Tuesday, striking the law down for now.

In a 60-page ruling evoking decades of racism in North Carolina, the judge wrote that parts of the new voter ID law “were impermissibly motivated, at least in part, by discriminatory intent.”

“North Carolina has a sordid history of racial discrimination and voter suppression stretching back to the time of slavery, through the era of Jim Crow, and, crucially, continuing up to the present day,” she wrote.

The last time North Carolina’s Republican-led General Assembly passed a voter ID law, in 2013, it was also struck down for racial discrimination. However, GOP leaders have repeatedly said they believed this newer version of the law, which was passed a year ago, avoided the racial issues the previous law ran into."

https://www.newsobserver.com/news/po...238870598.html

[BruceWayneJr.]

I think the confusion might come from Republicans having a different definition of "people" than you or I have.

[Tami]

Thousands of migrant children were sexually abused in U.S. custody, HHS docs say

Washington — Thousands of migrant children allegedly suffered sexual abuse while in U.S. government custody over the past four years, according to Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) documents released Tuesday by Florida Democratic Rep. Ted Deutch.

According to the documents, over a thousand allegations of sexual abuse against unaccompanied minors in HHS custody were reported to federal authorities each fiscal year since 2015. In total, between October 2014 and July 2018, 4,556 sexual abuse complaints were reported to the Office of Refugee Resettlement (ORR) — an agency within HHS in charge of caring for unaccompanied migrant minors.

[SquirrelMan]

I have doubts about that poll. I can't see Virginia going for Hillary by 5% and turning more Democratic after that, then going for Trump against any Democrat.

Maybe they are factoring in all the Trump-appointed judges that have been seated since 2016, that will decided election challenges etc?

[SquirrelMan]

That's from RealClear. I checked FiveThirtyEight and saw the latest Economist/YouGov Poll.

Attachment 90862

The poll results are conflicting. When broken down by candidate, most respondents seem to think none of the top tier Democratic Candidates can beat Trump, but in terms of overall those polled seemed to be saying that Democrat will beat Trump.

It could mean that the candidate most likely to beat Trump isn't one fo the top tier candidates.

"Generic Democrat" always does well, because they meet ALL the purity requirements.

[Mister Mets]

Your party actively tries to keep black people from voting and separates children from their mothers as a deterrent.

You still have yet to explain how these actions -- and rampant Republican racism, homophobia and Islamophobia -- are best "for the most people".

-------
"NC voter ID law written with ‘discriminatory intent,’ says judge who just struck it down"

"Racial discrimination was at least part of the motivation for a new voter ID law in North Carolina, a federal judge wrote Tuesday, striking the law down for now.

In a 60-page ruling evoking decades of racism in North Carolina, the judge wrote that parts of the new voter ID law “were impermissibly motivated, at least in part, by discriminatory intent.”

“North Carolina has a sordid history of racial discrimination and voter suppression stretching back to the time of slavery, through the era of Jim Crow, and, crucially, continuing up to the present day,” she wrote.

The last time North Carolina’s Republican-led General Assembly passed a voter ID law, in 2013, it was also struck down for racial discrimination. However, GOP leaders have repeatedly said they believed this newer version of the law, which was passed a year ago, avoided the racial issues the previous law ran into."

https://www.newsobserver.com/news/po...238870598.html

I make no claim it's actually best for the people, just that many politicians will come to that conclusion.

There are typically defenses to the specific complaints about any particular policy. So a polling place that is closed down isn't ADA compliant, or the argument may be that it's not worth the cost of keeping it open. And they'll still believe that holding power allows them to help people of color more than the other side.

According to the link you provided, Republican legislators stated their claim that their law avoided the racial issues. Perhaps they'll be swayed by the judge. Perhaps they'll believe the judge is mistaken or even acting in bad faith. They could meanwhile believe that it's absurd to associate the Republican party with sordid history of racism with the Jim Crow laws and slavery, since the Republican party wasn't in charge of North Carolina in those times.

Voter ID laws are really popular, so it seems a stretch to suggest that elected officials could have no reason to think that laws that have the support of 80% of all Americans are helpful to the country.

https://news.gallup.com/poll/194741/...ly-voting.aspx

[jetengine]

Except Voter Fraud is hilariously minuscule whilst Voter ID is an easy way to stop poors from voting

[Theleviathan]

Always good news when this guy gets what he has coming.

[Mister Mets]

Except Voter Fraud is hilariously minuscule whilst Voter ID is an easy way to stop poors from voting

I don't think everyone realizes how miniscule the problem of voter fraud is. For older Republicans, egregious examples of this kind of fraud occurred in living memory. It was confirmed in 1990 that LBJ stole his first Senate race.

https://www.nytimes.com/1990/02/11/u...he-d-lost.html

From occasional volunteering and Board of Elections work, my impression of older Republicans is that they really believe that voter fraud is rampant. They're wrong but the goal post is whether they're doing what they think is best.

People being wrong about voter fraud now also doesn't mean we should make it easier to steal elections in the future. Just because voter fraud is rare now doesn't mean it'll stay that way if we change the laws in ways that can be easily exploited.

There was a push to allow for nationwide online voting, until the concerns about the 2016 election highlighted the need for a paper trail.

https://www.theverge.com/2012/10/11/...e-elections-us

[JCAll]

Thousands of migrant children were sexually abused in U.S. custody, HHS docs say

I absolutely dread finding out what the death toll for the camps is going to be when the curtain finally gets pulled back.

[Malvolio]

"Generic Democrat" always does well, because they meet ALL the purity requirements.

Exactly. As soon as a name is attached to the "Generic Democrat," people who would have otherwise voted for that candidate come up with all kinds of excuses for not voting for that candidate.

[aja_christopher]

From occasional volunteering and Board of Elections work, my impression of older Republicans is that they really believe that voter fraud is rampant. They're wrong but the goal post is whether they're doing what they think is best.

Because your party keeps lying about it so they can enact laws that keep black people from voting with "surgical precision".

Which you conveniently left out of your explanation -- along with why separating immigrant children from their mother as a "deterrent" is what's "best for the most people". It's fortunate for all concerned that you didn't attempt to bring up "open borders" again as an excuse, as that saves us a lot of time that would be otherwise wasted arguing over biased speculation rather than actual political record.

Just be honest -- your party actively attempts to suppress the votes of black people because many are racist and because it helps them win elections.

They thrive on racism, homophobia, and Islamophobia -- as well as hypocrisy -- and at least in that respect, Trump gives them exactly what they want.

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"GOP hit with election fraud claims after using issue as rallying cry"

"The North Carolina Republican political operative at the center of an absentee ballot fraud scheme that led the state to order a rerun of a congressional election was arrested and charged with obstruction of justice on Wednesday, officials said.

The operative, Leslie McCrae Dowless, was charged with three felony counts of obstruction of justice, two counts of conspiring to commit obstruction of justice and two counts of possession of absentee ballots, according to court documents.

Allegations that operatives working for Dowless illegally collected, and sometimes filled in, absentee ballots on behalf of Republican Mark Harris’ campaign emerged shortly after the Nov. 6 election. They caused the state to hold off certifying Harris’ apparent narrow victory over Democrat Dan McCready. The state Board of Elections, during four days of hearings last week, heard evidence of what election officials called a well-funded and well-organized campaign to tip the election for the state’s 9th District in the U.S. House of Representatives, which stretches southeast from Charlotte.

The months-long scandal became an embarrassment to President Donald Trump’s Republican Party, which has accused Democrats without proof of encouraging voter fraud in races such as the 2016 presidential election."

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/...-house-1045355

[aja_christopher]

"It's important to remember that Conservatism, as a political ideology (and this isn't true in other contexts), was created in response to the French Revolution to protect the wealth and power of aristocrats and the existence of the Monarchy (Go read your Burke). All ideologies in the conservatism cluster believe that a strong social hierarchy is humanity's natural state and will work to maintain or create their idealized social hierarchy. The differences between lay in who the place at the top of the hierarchy:

Neo-liberal conservatives use wealth to determine position in the hierarchy. Remember that when we "vote" with our dollars, people with more dollars get more votes. It also lets them shift numerous political issues into the economic space, a sleight of hand which hides how they policies strip rights away from people. Believing the some people don't deserve food or shelter seems less abhorrent when you say it as "those people need to take personal responsibility for how they wasted their money".

Troys use blood-right to determine position in the hierarchy. If you were born an aristocrat, you are innately better than anyone else. When the only rich people are aristocrats, this is functionally identical to Neo-liberalism and the problem of inherited wealth in a capitalism system often makes this happen.

Social conservatives use religious observance to determine position in the hierarchy. This is why social conservatives of many different faiths actual act in extremely similar ways. Compare radical Islam with extreme right-wing Christians. Both advocate and perform violence against those they feel violate their "moral" standards.

Fascists use racial identities to determine position in the hierarchy. Note that since "race" is an artificial social construction, it is quite possible to construct a racial identity around a national identity. This is how "American" becomes a code word for "White" and the idea that non-white Americans are from somewhere else even if they were born in America.

Misogynists use gender to determine position in the hierarchy and Homo- & Trans-phobes use sexual-identity to determine position in the hierarchy.

A party without a governing theory, a higher purpose or a clear moral direction is nothing more than a cartel, a syndicate that exists only to advance itself. There is no organized, coherent purpose other than the acquisition and maintenance of power.

The party's governing theory has always been the acquisition and maintenance of power for the right people. The Trump Era is about drop that pretense that it was every about anything else. What policies does that have that have not been advocated by Republicans before?"

https://old.reddit.com/r/politics/co...s_for_all_the/

[Mister Mets]

"Generic Democrat" always does well, because they meet ALL the purity requirements.

Generic candidates perform better on both sides. Repeating something from a few months ago, but generic candidates are blank slates. It's that person with a telegenic family who has served for 4-8 years as Governor or 6-10 years as Senator of an important state, following an impressive career in business, law, medicine, public policy and/ or the military. And he/she agrees with you on most of the major issues.

Real candidates will have all sorts of flaws, like minor scandals and unpopular votes/ positions.

Because your party keeps lying about it so they can enact laws that keep black people from voting with "surgical precision".

Which you conveniently left out of your explanation -- along with why separating immigrant children from their mother as a "deterrent" is what's "best for the most people". It's fortunate for all concerned that you didn't attempt to bring up "open borders" again as an excuse, as that saves us a lot of time that would be otherwise wasted arguing over biased speculation rather than actual political record.

Just be honest -- your party actively attempts to suppress the votes of black people because many are racist and because it helps them win elections.

They thrive on racism, homophobia, and Islamophobia -- as well as hypocrisy -- and at least in that respect, Trump gives them exactly what they want.

-----
"GOP hit with election fraud claims after using issue as rallying cry"

"The North Carolina Republican political operative at the center of an absentee ballot fraud scheme that led the state to order a rerun of a congressional election was arrested and charged with obstruction of justice on Wednesday, officials said.

The operative, Leslie McCrae Dowless, was charged with three felony counts of obstruction of justice, two counts of conspiring to commit obstruction of justice and two counts of possession of absentee ballots, according to court documents.

Allegations that operatives working for Dowless illegally collected, and sometimes filled in, absentee ballots on behalf of Republican Mark Harris’ campaign emerged shortly after the Nov. 6 election. They caused the state to hold off certifying Harris’ apparent narrow victory over Democrat Dan McCready. The state Board of Elections, during four days of hearings last week, heard evidence of what election officials called a well-funded and well-organized campaign to tip the election for the state’s 9th District in the U.S. House of Representatives, which stretches southeast from Charlotte.

The months-long scandal became an embarrassment to President Donald Trump’s Republican Party, which has accused Democrats without proof of encouraging voter fraud in races such as the 2016 presidential election."

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/...-house-1045355

Immigration is a different question, but one can easily think harsh policies will be better for most people, preventing the asylum process from being used as an end-run around existing laws, and discouraging people from endangering the lives of their children in journeys to the US.

If you want to go into the open borders argument, I'm perfectly willing to do so. The argument I've seen presented from center-left and left-wing commentators is that the Democrats are not expressing a limiting principle on legal immigration. What limits should there be on the number/ percentage of people allowed into the country? Of those who are in the country illegally, is there anyone without a criminal record who should be kicked off? (And there's a lot of pushback in cases involving criminal records that suggests even that exception doesn't apply any more.)

The argument that we should look at the record doesn't really answer what Democrats would do if they're able to do better politically, nor does it address the major ways in which the party has become significantly more liberal lately.

https://www.vox.com/2019/3/22/182598...ing-trump-2020