All purpose news and politics thread part v: The quickening

[KNIGHT OF THE LAKE]

25% of Bernie Sanders supporters voted for a candidate other than Clinton or did not vote at all.

And it’s well documented more Democratic Hillary supporters voted for McCain. So way to try gaslight a point

[KNIGHT OF THE LAKE]

Btw we were just kicked out of Iraq

[SquirrelMan]

And it’s well documented more Democratic Hillary supporters voted for McCain. So way to try gaslight a point

McCain was considered a centrist Republican, while Trump is a racist, white supremacist sexual assaulter and con man.

Comparing a vote for McCain with a vote for Trump is like comparing a vote for Adenauer with a vote for Hitler.

[AnakinFlair]

Btw we were just kicked out of Iraq

And Trump is saying we won't leave unless Iraq pays for the military base we built there. Jesus....

[The Overlord]

McCain was considered a centrist Republican, while Trump is a racist, white supremacist sexual assaulter and con man.

Comparing a vote for McCain with a vote for Trump is like comparing a vote for Adenauer with a vote for Hitler.

Trump is a symptom, not the disease, the real problem is the GOP itself and McCain was part of that corrupt institution, you comparison does not work if Hilter and Adenauer are in the same party

McConnel did not need Trump to obstruct Obama for several years.

Do people think the Trump is the only sexual deviant in that party, no one remembers Mark Foley, Dennis Hastert and Richard Mourdock? An party that devalues women the way the GOP does will be full of creeps, McCain being at the helm would not have changed that.

McCain would have done a lot of what Trump is doing (not everything, but a lot), he would just put a friendly face on it. Heck I would easily argue Bush is just as bad as Trump in a lot of ways (the Patriot Act, the Iraq War, Katrina, etc).

The problem is you treat Trump like a demon that rose from Hell and ruined a perfectly good party, I think that party has been rotten for decades and Trump is the logical conclusion, just getting rid of Trump will not solve the moral rot of the GOP.

[SquirrelMan]

Trump is a symptom, not the disease, the real problem is the GOP itself and McCain was part of that corrupt institution, you comparison does not work if Hilter and Adenauer are in the same party

McConnel did not need Trump to obstruct Obama for several years.

Do people think the Trump is the only sexual deviant in that party, no one remembers Mark Foley, Dennis Hastert and Richard Mourdock? An party that devalues women the way the GOP does will be full of creeps, McCain being at the helm would not have changed that.

McCain would have done a lot of what Trump is doing (not everything, but a lot), he would just put a friendly face on it. Heck I would easily argue Bush is just as bad as Trump in a lot of ways (the Patriot Act, the Iraq War, Katrina, etc).

The problem is you treat Trump like a demon that rose from Hell and ruined a perfectly good party, I think that party has been rotten for decades and Trump is the logical conclusion, just getting rid of Trump will not solve the moral rot of the GOP.

Siri, what does normalizing fascism look like?

[KNIGHT OF THE LAKE]

McCain was considered a centrist Republican, while Trump is a racist, white supremacist sexual assaulter and con man.

Comparing a vote for McCain with a vote for Trump is like comparing a vote for Adenauer with a vote for Hitler.

In yet the Republicans who McCain supported just torpedoed the economy and the last admin was responsible for Iraq. So Hillary voters voted to keep in power a party that just did far worse than Trump, so nice deflecting but it was equally as fucking petty and insane, and Hillary supporters did it at a greater magnitude

[jetengine]

2016 is so fucking tired right now. Exactly why I'd hoped Bernie would have retired

[The Overlord]

Siri, what does normalizing fascism look like?

Do you have a non meme answer my questions.

So what you don't think the GOP has been promoting fascism for decades, ever since the Southern Strategy? Racism has part of the GOP since the 1960s, saying Trump came along and used racist mind control on the GOP base or something like that is naïve. They have been normalizing this stuff for decades, Trump just turned the dog whistles into bull horns.

Heck McCain picked Palin to be his VP, she is like a pronto Trump.

Trump becoming President is not an accident, its the logical outcome of what the GOP is doing.

If you want to fight fascism, you have to fight the GOP itself or you will lose that fight. The GOP's style of fascism is not going to go away when Trump leaves office.

2016 is so fucking tired right now. Exactly why I'd hoped Bernie would have retired

I think if someone young, like Mayor Pete, took up his ideas, I think people would have moved on from Bernie.

Its the ideas, not the man that matters, the problem is only Bernie and Warren, are actual left wingers in this race.

[Theleviathan]

Alright, then I hope we don't see a repeat of 2016, where Biden wins the nomination, runs on nothing besides not being Trump, Trump portrays him as some out of touch elitist and puppet of the corrupt system and than wins the electoral college, despite losing the popular vote, because that could happen.

I also hope Biden will be willing to make changes on the structural issues that created Trumpism in the first place or we will fighting the same battle against Don Jr. in 4 years.

I have a legitimate fear that history will repeat with that first scenario, but that is not a certainty, he may win, but lets not treat like a slam dunk, I think his record is a bigger deal than you think, I do not find charismatic, I do not think he is good with dealing with being challenged, I do not find him a good speaker. I think he has a lot of the weaknesses Clinton had, but worse, Clinton is at least a decent speaker. Pray to God that he at least campaigns in the rust belt, rather than assuming those states are in the bag.

I am certain the second scenario will happen, Biden will do nothing to address the causes of Trumpism and this same battle will happen in 4 years.

I think what you should consider in regards to 2016 is that Hillary was a deeply disliked candidate by many swing voters. None of the current candidates carry that kind of baggage. The lesson from 2016 is to learn which states require your attention and to take nothing for granted.

As for the deeper, underlying structures.....I just don't know how those get changed. You are right to assume Bernie will be more likely to want those things changed than Biden, but the desire to change and the ability to make it actual are quite different things.

[SquirrelMan]

What if Sanders picks Jill Stein as his Veep

[The Overlord]

I think what you should consider in regards to 2016 is that Hillary was a deeply disliked candidate by many swing voters. None of the current candidates carry that kind of baggage. The lesson from 2016 is to learn which states require your attention and to take nothing for granted.

I am curious as to how popular Biden actually is, I personally do not see the appeal, but alright. I hope you are right if he wins the nomination.

As for the deeper, underlying structures.....I just don't know how those get changed. You are right to assume Bernie will be more likely to want those things changed than Biden, but the desire to change and the ability to make it actual are quite different things.

I think a lot of the problems that created Trumpism are due to corruption from the donor class, Bernie is willing to take them on, Biden is not and as long as the donor class remains unchallenged, the problems remained, heck that is what Trump bashed Clinton with in the 2016 election.

[SquirrelMan]

Your regular reminder that Hillary was so disliked, she got more votes than any white man who ever won the presidency, and more than Obama in 2012.

[The Overlord]

Your regular reminder that Hillary was so disliked, she got more votes than any white man who ever won the presidency, and more than Obama in 2012.

That and a token gets you a ride on the subway. Unless the Dems make a real effort to try to rid of the Electoral College and gerrymandering and voter suppression the next time they are in power, they will get more non victories like they did in 2016.

[Theleviathan]

That and a token gets you a ride on the subway. Unless the Dems make a real effort to try to rid of the Electoral College and gerrymandering and voter suppression the next time they are in power, they will get more non victories like they did in 2016.

The Dems would be fools to get rid of the Electoral College with the trends in populations.