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  1. #4126
    Old school comic book fan WestPhillyPunisher's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gray Lensman View Post
    Personally, I think Sanders is better suited to be in the cabinet as labor secretary than he is as the President.
    That would make for an excellent choice.
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  2. #4127
    Extraordinary Member Malvolio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KNIGHT OF THE LAKE View Post
    That all depends on your perspective of what pragmatism is.
    Explain how voting for a third party can be pragmatic. In a Presidential election. In 2020.

  3. #4128
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    Quote Originally Posted by kidfresh512 View Post
    Really you would prefer Trump get a second term and all that entails rather than vote for either? They wouldn't be my pics either but I cannot imagine a situation where they would be worse than trump at anything. And not voting or sitting out is exactly what that means more trump.
    Yes, I’ve had serious issues with them there whole career and with Gillibrand in particular, let’s say I’ve heard enough personal anecdotes about her from people I know to not even consider supporting her. Either way I’m glad Americans saw through that

  4. #4129
    Paranoid Android ChadH's Avatar
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    Here in the midwest, the National Guard started calling people in for deployment back in October.
    The Cover Contest Weekly Winners Thread So much winning!!

    "When fascism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." - Sinclair Lewis
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  5. #4130
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malvolio View Post
    Explain how voting for a third party can be pragmatic. In a Presidential election. In 2020.
    It depends on your priority. Not everyone has the mentality of the board where one party is good and one is bad. Some see two bad party’s moving towards a bad outcome at varying speeds and making a third party more viable would be more constructive even if it’s a small step forward

  6. #4131
    Paranoid Android ChadH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KNIGHT OF THE LAKE View Post
    It depends on your priority. Not everyone has the mentality of the board where one party is good and one is bad. Some see two bad party’s moving towards a bad outcome at varying speeds and making a third party more viable would be more constructive even if it’s a small step forward
    And some people don't give a fuck if one party is locking children in cages as long as they get to sit back and feel superior.
    The Cover Contest Weekly Winners Thread So much winning!!

    "When fascism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." - Sinclair Lewis
    "Being politically incorrect shouldn't be a matter of pride. It's the last gasp of the wrong side of history." - Unknown
    "By all means, compare these s**t-heads to Nazis." - Mike Godwin referring to the protesters in Charlottesville.

  7. #4132
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChadH View Post
    And some people don't give a fuck if one party is locking children in cages as long as they get to sit back and feel superior.
    And some people use one atrocity to shame people for supporting perpetrators of another atrocity. But I guess you don’t give a fuck about when a certain other party was in power and blowing up innocent children with drone strikes and in one case targeted an American citizen. See it’s easy to gaslight and moralize like that

  8. #4133
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    Quote Originally Posted by KNIGHT OF THE LAKE View Post
    It depends on your priority. Not everyone has the mentality of the board where one party is good and one is bad. Some see two bad party’s moving towards a bad outcome at varying speeds and making a third party more viable would be more constructive even if it’s a small step forward
    It's why i found the comment interesting. I feel like its opinions like this and that "both parties are the same", will make or break the election. If people actually follow through and don't vote or sit out.

    I just cannot fathom the thinking that there is a real similarity at all. It makes no sense to me that anyone from center to the most progressive sees their policies advancing anytime soon if Trump is re elected. I just don't see the logic in allowing another Supreme Court nominee and more McConnell judges all over the courts. It effectively limits potential progress for generations. Even when the perfect candidate you would love makes it in any policy they want to enact is now hampered by the court decisions that will challenge them for YEARS. Its the entire reason for ramming so many judges in these lifetime spots. so even with changing demographics they can still wield more power than they should based on votes.

    I feel like even if I don't get the perfect candidate now. ANY Democrat would at least stop the bleeding and begin the groundwork for future fixes and progressive changes to move the country in the right direction. If he wins again the divisive rhetoric, the crazy policies will move on in earnest because they will believe they have a mandate and don't even have to play for another election.
    Last edited by kidfresh512; 01-13-2020 at 11:45 AM.

  9. #4134
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    Quote Originally Posted by kidfresh512 View Post
    It's why i found the comment interesting. I feel like its opinions like this and that "both parties are the same", will make or break the election. If people actually follow through and don't vote or sit out.

    I just cannot fathom the thinking that there is a real similarity at all. It makes no sense to me that anyone from center to the most progressive sees their policies advancing anytime soon if Trump is re elected. I just don't see the logic in allowing another Supreme Court nominee and more McConnell judges all over the courts. It effectively limits potential progress for generations. Even when the perfect candidate you would love makes it in any policy they want to enact is now hampered by the court decisions that will challenge them for YEARS. Its the entire reason for ramming so many judges in these lifetime spots. so even with changing demographics they can still wield more power than they should based on votes.

    I feel like even if I don't get the perfect candidate now. ANY Democrat would at least stop the bleeding and begin the groundwork for future fixes and progressive changes to move the country in the right direction. If he wins again the divisive rhetoric, the crazy policies will move on in earnest because they will believe they have a mandate and don't even have to play for another election.
    You don’t need to think they are similar to think they are both bad.

  10. #4135
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    Quote Originally Posted by KNIGHT OF THE LAKE View Post
    You don’t need to think they are similar to think they are both bad.
    Do you think that a Trump second term in ANY way. Moves the needle the way you would want it to go on any policy? Or do you agree that more trump/GOP control would hamper any progress in future election cycles because of what they are doing right now?

  11. #4136
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    Quote Originally Posted by kidfresh512 View Post
    Do you think that a Trump second term in ANY way. Moves the needle the way you would want it to go on any policy? Or do you agree that more trump/GOP control would hamper any progress in future election cycles because of what they are doing right now?
    I think both equally move the needle the wrong way. 8 years of Gillibrand is 8 years the Democrats won’t even attempt real progressive policy and they’ll do something stupid like Obama and nominate a Merrick Garland to appeal your conservatives (and fail anyways and lose more ground)

    Yeah personally I’d rather work towards a 3rd party system getting more traction than wasting my time unless it was a Democrat that could actually help.

  12. #4137

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    Quote Originally Posted by Malvolio View Post
    Explain how voting for a third party can be pragmatic. In a Presidential election. In 2020.
    It demonstrates that one's votes can't be taken for granted in the general election, which increases the chances of the party nominating figures closer to your side.

    Of course, there's the risk that doing so will alienate those on the other side of the big tent.

  13. #4138
    Astonishing Member PwrdOn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChadH View Post
    And some people don't give a fuck if one party is locking children in cages as long as they get to sit back and feel superior.
    But what do moderates actually plan to do about that though? Obviously they won't propose any policies that allows more refugees to actually enter the country, since that would upset too many midwestern swing voters just like any other policy that accomplishes anything useful. They'll probably just propose some half measure that yields the same result but with slightly better optics, but get lambasted by the GOP for being on the slippery slope to open borders and then beat a hasty retreat like they always do.

  14. #4139
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    Quote Originally Posted by Theleviathan View Post
    I would caution you're getting a bit ahead of yourself. Bernie leads Iowa, but the margin is very tight. The number of polls finding him leading overall, or even outside of Iowa, are few.

    His numbers continue to be very poor in swing states, unless that changes I hope you're wrong that he's the nominee.
    New Monmouth poll for Iowa today is back to normal, Biden with a 6 point lead and then Sanders, Buttigieg and Warren statistically tied.

  15. #4140
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    Quote Originally Posted by KNIGHT OF THE LAKE View Post
    I think both equally move the needle the wrong way. 8 years of Gillibrand is 8 years the Democrats won’t even attempt real progressive policy and they’ll do something stupid like Obama and nominate a Merrick Garland to appeal your conservatives (and fail anyways and lose more ground)

    Yeah personally I’d rather work towards a 3rd party system getting more traction than wasting my time unless it was a Democrat that could actually help.
    Its the equal part that I am still not seeing really but I wasn't trying to change your mind I just found it an interesting subject like I said.

    I don't realistically see a 3rd party system working here anytime soon. The GOP have demonstrated they will line up with the worst of their right wing base. No matter how hypocritical or divisive. So any third party that you are envisioning for the progressive tent how do you see it being a viable solution going forward? Where are the votes going to come from to get any power?

    If the current Democratic party who generally have gotten the popular vote in past elections, and I don't see that changing, need ALL of their base to defeat the GOP. From Center to left. How can left(progressive) only ever win anytime soon?

    You are thinking that there are non voters that would wake up and bridge the gap? I mean there are a ton in the country that doesn't vote at all, that could. If something activated them sure things might change but Nothing has so far.
    Last edited by kidfresh512; 01-13-2020 at 12:23 PM.

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