All purpose news and politics thread part v: The quickening

[Superbat]

You guys are literally melting down and all thats happening is "Waaaah Bernie", fucking hell. This kind of **** was why I was hoping he'd just fuckin' retire instead of hanging around like a Christmas Cake in February.

The most progressive senator in the country should have retired so you wouldn't have to read posts you don't like on a comic book forum.

Anti-Bernie people have the best priorities.

[kidfresh512]

Trump will not meet my needs, correct.

The GOP don't give a ****, and neither do most white Democratic centrists, if they did why do they always tag Right on things for Minoroties and denounce groups like Black Lives Matter. Dems just don't put kids in cages.

You are correct, I vote for the candidate who bests meets my needs.

Centrists aren't as bad, Centrists are worse in man cases, because the Democrats go so far to the Right on so many issues it's Sickening. You don't like Trumps agenda? Stop giving him money, and you want to impeach him? There's tons of laws he broke, you chose a phonecall? Democrats don't FIGHT! No one talks about Flint, they didn't go to Standing Rock except Bernie and Tulsi, Warren claims Native American heritage, where was she? Where was Biden? Where was Obama? Obama deported more people than Trump.

The Far left in every other country is the center. You guys love saying Far left this or that and have no evidence to back your claims, yet somehow the Far Right wins all the time?

You're right Centrists can't win. You know how they can? Support the things we care about. The Far left is moderate, Name ONE Far-left issue.

I don't have time for Incremental, Babies do, not adults with families. Democrats bend over backwards to appeal to the right wing and the far right, and do nothing to help their base or the left, and when they lose, they blame the base? How does that work? Please tell me.

Then how do you progress at all if you don't win and move the needle? I am a black middle class man too. Would I love to elect someone who is magically going to balance the budgets, make everyone equal under the law? Stop racism? Help the environment? Fix the healthcare system? Complete criminal justice reform? SURE. That would be amazin. But ALL that is not happening. This country is divided.

Every single progressive issue you can think of will be fought tooth and nail legally. Mitch is packing the Courts for that very reason. They are systematically gerrymandering to limit minority votes so we have less representation. Regardless of whether they are in or out of power.

You talk about you don't have time? But, you have time for trump to get another Supreme court pick? For him to load the benches with these unqualified conservatives who sure as hell wont be putting less black people away. Let alone trying to reform anything.

I keep asking these people that say I want huge changes NOW who and how in the world you think that's going to happen?

Even if the Democrat wins this election. That hardcore base and Fox News and trumps twitter account isn't going to vanish. They will fight every piece of legislation every step of the way. You have to have those centrist democrats you have disdain for beating some republicans and getting votes on anything you would like passed. That is reality

[jetengine]

The most progressive senator in the country should have retired so you wouldn't have to read posts you don't like on a comic book forum.

Anti-Bernie people have the best priorities.

I dont have a horse in this race, I'm just sick of 2016 being in loop whilst Trump knocks **** over and you guys shoot yourself in the face.

As for him retiring though ? Too old, hasnt done enough, too frail, too divisive with alot of negative **** surrounding him and his ideals will get destroyed by the republican officials being lined up as we speak. Thats why I want him to retire. The cycle of Bernie ending on here would be an extra

[Theleviathan]

Again more blatant dishonesty from you. The problem Bernie supporters had with the process were deliberate instances where the process was slanted and misused to hurt him and benefit her when they didn't need it. The DNC process did nothing whatsoever to "clear the deck". The viable Democratic candidates chose to abstain because they saw a deliberate desire from the party to have Hillary Clinton be the nominee. That was people seeing something for what it was and deciding to not waste time. That's different than purposfully setting up a contest to favor one contestent. Bernie likely would have lost regardless, but when you cheat like the Astros, you give people reason to feel like they were wronged because they were. Bernie likely would have lost, but he was wronged by the process and that's why he gained symptathy from many people, no just his supporters.

It's stupid to compare Tulsi complaining about preset rules and people bringing up that rules were completely altered and changed at will to hurt Bernie.

The Democrats didn't give Bernie anything. He, correctly, recognized it was best for his goals to run as a Democrat because if he didn't he wouldn't have a chance of winning but would also prevent the party he caucused with from winning. If he took the alternative it would have cost the Democrats in the election. What's pathetic is ignoring that he did them a favor by playing by their rules and not tanking them in a general election. You can't have it both ways and anyone with a brain cell can see through it.

And your silly hyperole and language just makes it look like you are not looking at it clearly and are far too emotional here. You provided no real facts and it's easy to see through your talking points

Not what I said. This was the deck clearing.

The Dems gave Bernie the primary infrastructure. Debate platforms. All the supports he would've otherwise had to spend millions to generate on his own.

Did it have mutual benefit? Sure. But to pretend there was an equal give and take is nonsense.

Facts arent talking points, they are facts.
12%. Millions of votes. Completely fair voting process. The DNC and primary process didnt do a single factual thing to cost Bernie votes or give them to Clinton. Not one. And unless you can prove otherwise your complaints are baseless, idolatry driven whining.

[Superbat]

I dont have a horse in this race, I'm just sick of 2016 being in loop whilst Trump knocks **** over and you guys shoot yourself in the face.

Why don't you say this stuff to the people saying Bernie's supporters are more racist than Trump's and that Bernie is going to make sexist attacks against women in the primary?

Bernie and his supporters were insulted and attacked in 2016. It's happening again here. If you don't want to relive 2016, tell the anti-Bernie to control themselves.

[Tazirai]

Then how do you progress at all if you don't win and move the needle? I am a black middle class man too. Would I love to elect someone who is magically going to balance the budgets, make everyone equal under the law? Stop racism? Help the environment? Fix the healthcare system? Complete criminal justice reform? SURE. That would be amazin. But ALL that is not happening. This country is divided.

Every single progressive issue you can think of will be fought tooth and nail legally. Mitch is packing the Courts for that very reason. They are systematically gerrymandering to limit minority votes so we have less representation. Regardless of whether they are in or out of power.

You talk about you don't have time? But, you have time for trump to get another Supreme court pick? For him to load the benches with these unqualified conservatives who sure as hell wont be putting less black people away. Let alone trying to reform anything.

I keep asking these people that say I want huge changes NOW who and how in the world you think that's going to happen?

Even if the Democrat wins this election. That hardcore base and Fox News and trumps twitter account isn't going to vanish. They will fight every piece of legislation every step of the way. You have to have those centrist democrats you have disdain for beating some republicans and getting votes on anything you would like passed. That is reality

Here's the thing. I'm less concerned about Mitch McConnell.

Joe Manchin concerns me. Blue Dogs concern me. The so-called "Left" concerns me. I know Republican politicians will fight me, even when some of their voters agree with Sanders.
Nancy "Clap at Trump-Yes Queen" Pelosi concerns me. Chuck "BDS is Antisemitic" Schumer concerns me.

They didn't incrementally give Trump 120 Billion towards the military a few months ago. Sanders voted against it, Warren voted for it. When it comes to helping the people, I'm expected to WAIT, but helping the Rich and the Military (Of which I'm a Vet), they don't have to wait.

We can seriously erase all Student Loan Debt with 81 Billion, but Centrists are like how do we pay for it? YOU JUST GAVE TRUMP 120 BILLION!
Centrist Democrats don't have to give us Incrementalism, they chose to.

They don't want to offend the Conservatives or the media for being too "Far Left". It's laughable.
We can do anything, according to Biden, except actually help the people.

Also, in the House, Democrats can bring anything to the floor. They control the Purse Strings, not the Senate.

[KNIGHT OF THE LAKE]

You guys are literally melting down and all thats happening is "Waaaah Bernie", fucking hell. This kind of **** was why I was hoping he'd just fuckin' retire instead of hanging around like a Christmas Cake in February.

Nobody said. Wahh Bernie. I brought up Hillary Clinton not saying she would support him, something that is against all of you who have preached unity for two years have been clamoring about. Then it descended into the usual suspects crying about him and going postal making up attacks. Honestly I wish you guys actually would have just been honest from the start instead of fabricating reasons to complain about him and why he (who is polling in second) shouldn't have run.

[Tazirai]

Not what I said. This was the deck clearing.

The Dems gave Bernie the primary infrastructure. Debate platforms. All the supports he would've otherwise had to spend millions to generate on his own.

Did it have mutual benefit? Sure. But to pretend there was an equal give and take is nonsense.

Facts arent talking points, they are facts.
12%. Millions of votes. Completely fair voting process. The DNC and primary process didnt do a single factual thing to cost Bernie votes or give them to Clinton. Not one. And unless you can prove otherwise your complaints are baseless, idolatry driven whining.

They did actually.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_D...'_campaign
https://www.vox.com/policy-and-polit...primary-rigged

https://www.bostonglobe.com/news/pol...YzM/story.html

[Mister Mets]

We already knew this. That’s what happens when you run a country via a constitution made from 250 something year old slave owners who didn’t think people who weren’t white and rich could govern themselves that thought a political process of checks and balances overseen by elites would be on the up and up

What changes do we need to the constitution?

[KNIGHT OF THE LAKE]

I dont have a horse in this race, I'm just sick of 2016 being in loop whilst Trump knocks **** over and you guys shoot yourself in the face.

As for him retiring though ? Too old, hasnt done enough, too frail, too divisive with alot of negative **** surrounding him and his ideals will get destroyed by the republican officials being lined up as we speak. Thats why I want him to retire. The cycle of Bernie ending on here would be an extra

"Too old" the top 3 candidates are in their 70's.

"Hasn't done enough" as opposed to Biden who is tied to some terrible ****.

"too frail" he had a heart attack and is still running the most active campaign lol.

"too divisive" because of disengenous talking points like this

"alot of negative **** surrounds" yes from his opponents.

"his ideals will get destroyed" then I guess we shoudn't have ideals.

This is where we are at for reasons why he should retire. No maybe the people complaining about him shouldn't take pot shots at him all the time. The same people in this thread that whine about being stuck in 2016 and wanting unity are the same ones that contsantly can't help themselves and make up stupid bordlerline slanderous attacks all the time on him and then the cycle starts. Maybe if you all could control your anger over him (and it wasn't his fault Hillary lost in 2016) and didn't feel the need to make petty attacks and then hide behind "LOOK AT WHAT TRUMP'S DOING AND IT'S NOT 2016 ANYMORE" then it wouldn't happen. But it's basically gaslighting at this point. It's the same thing all the time.

[kidfresh512]

Here's the thing. I'm less concerned about Mitch McConnell.

Joe Manchin concerns me. Blue Dogs concern me. The so-called "Left" concerns me. I know Republican politicians will fight me, even when some of their voters agree with Sanders.
Nancy "Clap at Trump-Yes Queen" Pelosi concerns me. Chuck "BDS is Antisemitic" Schumer concerns me.

They didn't incrementally give Trump 120 Billion towards the military a few months ago. Sanders voted against it, Warren voted for it. When it comes to helping the people, I'm expected to WAIT, but helping the Rich and the Military (Of which I'm a Vet), they don't have to wait.

We can seriously erase all Student Loan Debt with 81 Billion, but Centrists are like how do we pay for it? YOU JUST GAVE TRUMP 120 BILLION!
Centrist Democrats don't have to give us Incrementalism, they chose to.

They don't want to offend the Conservatives or the media for being too "Far Left". It's laughable.
We can do anything, according to Biden, except actually help the people.

Also, in the House, Democrats can bring anything to the floor. They control the Purse Strings, not the Senate.

They can and have passed bills that Mitch, who you aren't concerned about, will not allow votes on.

I also agree we give far too much money to the military. This is especially apparent when trump is finding it just fine to STEAL that allocated money for the useless wall he couldn't get funding for. Tens of billions taken from military for that means they had too much money anyway. Now we also have a Space Force who is going to want more money.

But, who is about to get elected and say I'm slashing the military budgets in half?

I am paying student loans too I think they should get wiped out also. But, no GOP candidate is going to do that or anything like it.

The logic that any Democrat is a problem but Mitch isn't is just mind boggling

[KNIGHT OF THE LAKE]

What changes do we need to the constitution?

Many. The 2nd Ammendment being a big one. It doesn't work anymore. The actual divisions of power need to be reorganized. The Executive shouldn't be nominating supreme court picks if you are going to function under a two party system. An impeachment process shouldn't be a political process anymore, it makes it too rigged. It should be an actual trial. Things like that. It's far too archaic to function. You can blame judicial interpretations of that, but the reality is the most strict originalist view is often the most problematic and everything else is trying to stretch a framework to be modern.

[KNIGHT OF THE LAKE]

Then how do you progress at all if you don't win and move the needle? I am a black middle class man too. Would I love to elect someone who is magically going to balance the budgets, make everyone equal under the law? Stop racism? Help the environment? Fix the healthcare system? Complete criminal justice reform? SURE. That would be amazin. But ALL that is not happening. This country is divided.

Every single progressive issue you can think of will be fought tooth and nail legally. Mitch is packing the Courts for that very reason. They are systematically gerrymandering to limit minority votes so we have less representation. Regardless of whether they are in or out of power.

You talk about you don't have time? But, you have time for trump to get another Supreme court pick? For him to load the benches with these unqualified conservatives who sure as hell wont be putting less black people away. Let alone trying to reform anything.

I keep asking these people that say I want huge changes NOW who and how in the world you think that's going to happen?

Even if the Democrat wins this election. That hardcore base and Fox News and trumps twitter account isn't going to vanish. They will fight every piece of legislation every step of the way. You have to have those centrist democrats you have disdain for beating some republicans and getting votes on anything you would like passed. That is reality

You know that whole white moderate quote from King? Yeah at this point moderates pretty much showed they don't move the needle.

Yes every progressive issue will be fought tooth and nail. At this point, it's better to have it at the forefront and be the leading issue until it gets enough support to be rammed through (like what happened with FDR) than to pretend that there is a magic scenario where Democrats win enough that it keeps slowly going left. That doesn't happen. Democrats have been fighting for healthcare for decades and the best they could do was Obamacare which really was a watered down Republican plan that has been torn apart because it was unpopular every single day Obama was in office until the remaining few people who had it were at risk of losing it and it's likely going to be dismantled. No it needs to be something big like social security where you can't even threaten it without it becoming a political death sentence. That's what the rest of the civillized world has on health care. You try to replace what most European countries have with our system and it will start a legitimate uprising and I'm not using hyperbole with that, people would die over there if they even tried that.

And the truth of the matter is we can scream about the Supreme Court but the fucking truth is we didn't really even lose much on it. Scalia the most conservative Justice died and he got replaced with another conservative who is probably less conservative than him and then Kennedy got replaced by one of his disciples. Now Kennedy wasn't leaving unless he got that, so he only did it to do Republicans a favor. So it's the Scalia seat that you really lost, which actually went less conservative. Now you could argue that we could have got real fundamental change getting a liberal in there. But Obama nominated Garland which was basically him trying to give conservatives an olive branch. So the moderate Democrat was going to piss that opportunity away anyways. It meant nothing and it was really an example of how the Democrats would have pissed away the victory anyways.

Again we saw this before with our most radical changes in human history. It was FDR. Now I'd prefer it not to take another massive depression to get there and to nominate a real hero, but we know from history that the moderate Democrat isn't the incremental vassal of change that gets us there.

[kidfresh512]

You know that whole white moderate quote from King? Yeah at this point moderates pretty much showed they don't move the needle.

Yes every progressive issue will be fought tooth and nail. At this point, it's better to have it at the forefront and be the leading issue until it gets enough support to be rammed through (like what happened with FDR) than to pretend that there is a magic scenario where Democrats win enough that it keeps slowly going left. That doesn't happen. Democrats have been fighting for healthcare for decades and the best they could do was Obamacare which really was a watered down Republican plan that has been torn apart because it was unpopular every single day Obama was in office until the remaining few people who had it were at risk of losing it and it's likely going to be dismantled. No it needs to be something big like social security where you can't even threaten it without it becoming a political death sentence. That's what the rest of the civillized world has on health care. You try to replace what most European countries have with our system and it will start a legitimate uprising and I'm not using hyperbole with that, people would die over there if they even tried that.

And the truth of the matter is we can scream about the Supreme Court but the fucking truth is we didn't really even lose much on it. Scalia the most conservative Justice died and he got replaced with another conservative who is probably less conservative than him and then Kennedy got replaced by one of his disciples. Now Kennedy wasn't leaving unless he got that, so he only did it to do Republicans a favor. So it's the Scalia seat that you really lost, which actually went less conservative. Now you could argue that we could have got real fundamental change getting a liberal in there. But Obama nominated Garland which was basically him trying to give conservatives an olive branch. So the moderate Democrat was going to piss that opportunity away anyways. It meant nothing and it was really an example of how the Democrats would have pissed away the victory anyways.

Again we saw this before with our most radical changes in human history. It was FDR. Now I'd prefer it not to take another massive depression to get there and to nominate a real hero, but we know from history that the moderate Democrat isn't the incremental vassal of change that gets us there.

Those at the fringes of society suffer the most and first in these let it all burn scenarios. Minorities, LGBT. Then women and their rights because everyone knows abortion is their go to cause. If you don't fall into one of these categories its easy to say yeah **** it let em all suffer till I get a hero that's going to come in and sweep the nation.

What you are talking about isn't happening in the next election. I totally agree with you Obamacare didn't go far enough. Garland was he super progressive? No but the voting public didn't give Obama the tools to not try and work with the other side. Lest we forget the massive midterm losses for Democrats and Control to Mitch. Who some don't worry about. We failed and let Mitch control that nomination. Obama tried a reasonable pick. He wouldn't have gotten ANYONE in that Mitch didn't allow because we failed to keep Mitch out of power.

It's easy to say he didn't go far enough. When we didn't show up and give him the backing he needed in midterms.

It's the same thing that will happen to a Bernie or a Warren or hell any Democrat now if we don't outvote the GOP in the general AND midterms.

[numberthirty]

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/0...clinton-101799

Sanders campaign privately urges restraint after Clinton attack

Bernie’s aides and allies feel that Hillary Clinton is trying to bait them.