All purpose news and politics thread part v: The quickening

[numberthirty]

https://thehill.com/homenews/campaig...can-to-support

Hillary Clinton responds to backlash: 'I will do whatever I can to support our nominee'

[Theleviathan]

They did actually.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_D...'_campaign
https://www.vox.com/policy-and-polit...primary-rigged

https://www.bostonglobe.com/news/pol...YzM/story.html

I can't speak to the globe link, it's behind a paywall. I linked the Vox article, it doesn't say what you think it does.

Bias? Absolutely, the DNC wanted the Democrat, not the Independent to win. Same thing Trump encountered from the RNC. Difference is, Bernie didn't even make it close enough to matter. Bernie knew about the closed primary when he signed up. He gladly accepted all the campaign infrastructure worth (literally) tens of millions of dollars to him. His message didn't resonate enough, in enough places, to win. Period.

He didn't get cheated. He lost. Even with a better starting hand than he could have ever generated on his own.

And we sit here today, about four years later, and he hasn't yet distinguished himself as a clear frontrunner even when you strip everything else away. He's doing better, but that's more likely because of name recognition than it is anything the DNC is or is not doing.

[shooshoomanjoe]

They did actually.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_D...'_campaign
https://www.vox.com/policy-and-polit...primary-rigged

https://www.bostonglobe.com/news/pol...YzM/story.html

From your second link

Basically, all of these examples came late in the primary—after Hillary Clinton was clearly headed for victory

And why shouldn't the DNC undermine Bernie? He's not a democrat.

[numberthirty]

From your second link


And why shouldn't the DNC undermine Bernie? He's not a democrat.

For the most obvious reasons possible.

[The Overlord]

Looks like the American dream is easier to achieve in Canada now:

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2020/01/20/b...dex/index.html

[kidfresh512]

Looks like the American dream is easier to achieve in Canada now:

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2020/01/20/b...dex/index.html

What is strange is the voters that most would benefit from more equal social mobility. The poorest in the poorest states. Vote against their own self interest in a party that loves giving to the rich and corporations, like their tax law

[KNIGHT OF THE LAKE]

Those at the fringes of society suffer the most and first in these let it all burn scenarios. Minorities, LGBT. Then women and their rights because everyone knows abortion is their go to cause. If you don't fall into one of these categories its easy to say yeah **** it let em all suffer till I get a hero that's going to come in and sweep the nation.

What you are talking about isn't happening in the next election. I totally agree with you Obamacare didn't go far enough. Garland was he super progressive? No but the voting public didn't give Obama the tools to not try and work with the other side. Lest we forget the massive midterm losses for Democrats and Control to Mitch. Who some don't worry about. We failed and let Mitch control that nomination. Obama tried a reasonable pick. He wouldn't have gotten ANYONE in that Mitch didn't allow because we failed to keep Mitch out of power.

It's easy to say he didn't go far enough. When we didn't show up and give him the backing he needed in midterms.

It's the same thing that will happen to a Bernie or a Warren or hell any Democrat now if we don't outvote the GOP in the general AND midterms.

Except you need to make the case that your way isn't contributing to letting "it all burn down". So far nearly every Democratic President of the last several decades has been relatively moderate. We have worse income inequaity than at any point since the boom after the depression, we lag behind the rest of the modern world in nearly every meaningful social program, and we are in a bunch of never ending wars. It's pretty easy to see the way it's going. I'm not convinced that Democratic moderates do anything but stifle progress and cede more and more ground to the right. And while I don't want it all to burn down, it's obviously heading closer to that direction.

And I'll throw it back to you, it's easy to say "we didn't show up and give him the backing he needed in the midterms" when he wasted a super majority and a mandate trying to appease Republicans. Like what did people think was going to happen? We gave him the backing and squandered it and made people dissapointed. The results were the results. It just sucks that he finally figured out it wasn't time to play nice when he lost power. With FDR he rammed **** through and was relentless even when Congress was fighting him tooth and nail, but the people backed the hell out of him for it and the Democrats got their greatest majorities ever. Like it kinda works. And it created the longest sustained run of Democratic majorities in Congress (outside of two seperate 2 year periods) that lasted for decades. And then moderation just kinda pissed it away. Put it this way, new wave Democrats from the 80's and 90's basically started what is effectively a historical renaissance for Republicans controlling Congress.

Seriously, look it up, starting around the FDR's first term the Democrats had a 62 year period where they only didn't have control of the Senate for 10 years and the House for 4 until about the mid 90's. Even super popular Ronald Reagan never had the House. He did however get Democrats to shift to being more moderate (conservative) and all of a sudden a few years later and we got a Republicans having control of the House for 20 of the last 26 years and the Senate for 16 of the last 26. Clearly something the Democrats are doing isn't working and it's costing them.

[KNIGHT OF THE LAKE]

I can't speak to the globe link, it's behind a paywall. I linked the Vox article, it doesn't say what you think it does.

Bias? Absolutely, the DNC wanted the Democrat, not the Independent to win. Same thing Trump encountered from the RNC. Difference is, Bernie didn't even make it close enough to matter. Bernie knew about the closed primary when he signed up. He gladly accepted all the campaign infrastructure worth (literally) tens of millions of dollars to him. His message didn't resonate enough, in enough places, to win. Period.

He didn't get cheated. He lost. Even with a better starting hand than he could have ever generated on his own.

And we sit here today, about four years later, and he hasn't yet distinguished himself as a clear frontrunner even when you strip everything else away. He's doing better, but that's more likely because of name recognition than it is anything the DNC is or is not doing.

There is one difference. The Republicans, as much I hate them, didn't really change anything or slant the election against Trump. They made it clear who they preferred, but that was about it. Trump won, they accepted it, and their base was satisfied and they won. The Democrats lost doing the opposite. There's a lesson there. And it isn't that Bernie is a Trump like figure. It's that when you let the process with the people play out, it works. Hillary was already fighting a corruption stigma, the DNC primary left alot of people who didn't have a dog in the race with a bad taste in their mouths.

[KNIGHT OF THE LAKE]

From your second link


And why shouldn't the DNC undermine Bernie? He's not a democrat.

Then they should have integrity and tell everyone that he isn't going to get a fair shake and let him and people who support him move on. They won't because they are desperate to convince progressives that if they stick with Democrats long enough, then the change will come. Meanwhile they are moving the country further to the right.

[Tami]

And no one is talking about the Senate trial of Donald Trump?

[Theleviathan]

There is one difference. The Republicans, as much I hate them, didn't really change anything or slant the election against Trump. They made it clear who they preferred, but that was about it. Trump won, they accepted it, and their base was satisfied and they won. The Democrats lost doing the opposite. There's a lesson there. And it isn't that Bernie is a Trump like figure. It's that when you let the process with the people play out, it works. Hillary was already fighting a corruption stigma, the DNC primary left alot of people who didn't have a dog in the race with a bad taste in their mouths.

I would like demonstrable facts and evidence to back up this claim of what the Democrats did. Not your perceptions. People having a bad taste is not evidence. (Never Trumpers exist after all, not to mention that isn't a fact. That's a feeling)

How did the DNC not "let the process play out"? Specifically, how did any actions they took (like Clinton's campaign agreements with DNC funds) alter the outcome of the race? Careful, I'm not one of your fellow worshippers. Non-facts will be called for their bullshit.

[kidfresh512]

Except you need to make the case that your way isn't contributing to letting "it all burn down". So far nearly every Democratic President of the last several decades has been relatively moderate. We have worse income inequaity than at any point since the boom after the depression, we lag behind the rest of the modern world in nearly every meaningful social program, and we are in a bunch of never ending wars. It's pretty easy to see the way it's going. I'm not convinced that Democratic moderates do anything but stifle progress and cede more and more ground to the right. And while I don't want it all to burn down, it's obviously heading closer to that direction.

And I'll throw it back to you, it's easy to say "we didn't show up and give him the backing he needed in the midterms" when he wasted a super majority and a mandate trying to appease Republicans. Like what did people think was going to happen? We gave him the backing and squandered it and made people dissapointed. The results were the results. It just sucks that he finally figured out it wasn't time to play nice when he lost power. With FDR he rammed **** through and was relentless even when Congress was fighting him tooth and nail, but the people backed the hell out of him for it and the Democrats got their greatest majorities ever. Like it kinda works. And it created the longest sustained run of Democratic majorities in Congress (outside of two seperate 2 year periods) that lasted for decades. And then moderation just kinda pissed it away. Put it this way, new wave Democrats from the 80's and 90's basically started what is effectively a historical renaissance for Republicans controlling Congress.

Seriously, look it up, starting around the FDR's first term the Democrats had a 62 year period where they only didn't have control of the Senate for 10 years and the House for 4 until about the mid 90's. Even super popular Ronald Reagan never had the House. He did however get Democrats to shift to being more moderate (conservative) and all of a sudden a few years later and we got a Republicans having control of the House for 20 of the last 26 years and the Senate for 16 of the last 26. Clearly something the Democrats are doing isn't working and it's costing them.

How are democrats to blame for the current income inequality? In all your scenarios you are blaming the democrats...and not the republicans and nearly half the country that vote for them no matter what.

Paris accords were not "moving the country right". GOP at large doesnt believe in science or at least wont admit climate change is real.
Expanding Medicaid and Medicare are not "moving the country right". And since we gave the gop so many state governments they could choose not to expand and cost their own people. But its Democrats fault somehow.

All these environmental regulations trump rolls back everyday for corporations to be able to pollute more, and get away with it Obama did that. That's not moving the country right. Trying to protect Dreamers who contribute to our economy and pay taxes and want to work and be apart of our armed forces and protect us is moving the country right?

Clinton balanced the budget. Then we let the GOP in and started the current endless wars.

But, now we are arguing its the Democrats moving us right? Non nonsensical.

Trump has continued Obama's economic numbers and not crashed it all yet while claiming he did it.

You let GOP in they will tear it all down. They have been trying for decades to get Roe v Wade overturned. They will do the same for Obamacare, Medicare for all, the pipe dream of repealing the second amendment, gay marriage. Those people dont just vanish the only way to beat them is not let them get power in the first place. And move the country forward despite them

[kidfresh512]

And no one is talking about the Senate trial of Donald Trump?

We know what's going to happen. It was the right thing to do but we all know how it goes with these players controlling the action now in the Senate

[Gray Lensman]

And no one is talking about the Senate trial of Donald Trump?

Is anything happening besides the predicted whitewashing orchestrated by Midnight Mitch? Or is Collins still taking a few hours at the lunch counter before deciding on the same thing the clown from Kentucky ordered?

[Jack Dracula]

And no one is talking about the Senate trial of Donald Trump?

Apparently Hillary Clinton said a mean thing about Bernie.
Ranting ensued.