All purpose news and politics thread part v: The quickening

[KNIGHT OF THE LAKE]

That's why they have these things called 'vice presidents'.

Bingo. It’s also why that position is viewed as so important that the announcement for them is a big deal, they have their own debates and are part of the ticket. I’ve seen many people on here claim Palin cost McCain because of the fear of her being a heartbeat away from the Presidency.

It’s something that is significantly accounted for in the process.

[zinderel]

That's why they have these things called 'vice presidents'.

I sometimes kinda...feel like people should run for President, free of having to pick a VP. At the end of the election, whoever the top two vote-getters are, they are President and Veep. Even if they are from different parties.

Sure, the first time or two will end up a shitshow of two egos at loggerheads while the nation does its own thing and the government gets barely anything done. But we’re hardly strangers to a do-nothing government. Eventually, they’d realize that working together will get more done than constantly locking horns, and after a few pathetic administrations, we’d see a renewal of both sides of the aisle working together as they purge the more contentious and worthless members of each party that are just holding us all back with their hatred and constant bickering and backbiting and betrayal.

And then the high fades and I remember that nothing good will ever happen again, the Republican-Controlled Senate and their pet Blue Dogs will end up acquitting Trump, life is a long, downward spiral to oblivion, and genuine compromise is impossible because of extremists on all sides and corporate bribery lurking in every handshake.

And I cry a little.

[KNIGHT OF THE LAKE]

Nuance exists only for Bernie, it seems.

It’s a two street on here. There’s plenty of people on here who fall in the anti Sanders camp that have stretched things beyond the limit of credible reasonability to criticize Sanders while in the same breath giving preferred candidates a pass for much worse.

Quite frankly there are several people here who have defended every move Biden ever made and are very averse to criticism.

Funny thing is, I’ve actually gave people ammo on here to credibly attack Sanders on. For instance, I’m never going to begrudge anyone for going after him on gun issues because it’s a blind spot he has a big weakness on that basically came down to him not wanting to take an unpopular stance in his state. Or, and this is the reason I prefer Warren, he has a very narrow messaging skill set and struggles live to be agile and flexible in topics that aren’t wealth inequality.

The problem is that those get stretched beyond reasonable measures. On here him being rigid on the economy turns into he doesn’t talk about minority issues enough (fair enough) turns into he’s bad for black people (now we passed a logical threshold) and in some cases turns into he doesn’t do well with black people (polling indicates this isn’t based in reality). And then in the same breath we get someone supporting Biden who (while polling well with African Americans) has said and pushed for policies that have hurt them or Buttigieg who is legitimately dealing with a racial scandal in his state and actually has none existent black support. Hell I’ve even see people say he has no credibility on civil rights despite being active in the actual civil rights movement, which quite frankly is more than I can say for anyone left on stage (maybe you could have made arguments for Booker and Castro when they were still involved).

And then bluntly, when all else fails, it’s “well I don’t really like his supporters”.

Like there’s plenty of things to hit Sanders on, but I find with him specifically there’s people more willing to needlessly manufacture things and hold a standard that doesn’t exist with anyone else they consider. And to be fair I do think there are people on here who have that tendency on the pro Bernie side. However I find those people to act that way far more on something ideologically based. Which I understand more. When the inverse seems to be based more on misgivings over 2016 and latching on to external reasons for why they didn’t win.

To be honest with you, I pretty much saw 2016 right on the money. I saw Trump a mile away when people were still looking for little rationalizations like “when people drop out, someone will overcome him” and I correctly felt Hillary matched up horribly for him in that particular race in the climate at the time. So I tend to trust my gut on these things. My only real gripe about Biden is that I think if he gets the nom he will flat out lose. After 2016 I feel like you’ll see a lot of young people and progressives disassociate out of apathy and I think Trump’s team if nothing else is great at marketing and Biden provides way too much material. Also, he’s getting an Obama boost now, but Biden’s never really performed well in a primary or any type of national election (he unceremoniously left every other primary as a non factor). Then there’s the gaffes which might seem small now, but the minute he’s in front of more vicious Republicans, they will be getting 24/7 coverage. If I was totally convinced Biden would win and unite the party, id probably be more comfortable compromising on him.

It’s a big reason I preferred Warren. I think she’s progressive enough to get the energy from the left, but plays well enough with the establishment to not scare them off. She’s also intelligent and can be agile when dealing with Trump. However I think she tripped up trying to satisfy two masters and it pissed both off and now she may be in too big of a hole before voting starts.

Barring her making a comeback, it’s really just Biden vs Sanders. In that case, I think Sanders matches up better practically and he has the added benefit of being closer to me ideologically than Biden, so it’s kind of a no brainer.

[KNIGHT OF THE LAKE]

I sometimes kinda...feel like people should run for President, free of having to pick a VP. At the end of the election, whoever the top two vote-getters are, they are President and Veep. Even if they are from different parties.

Sure, the first time or two will end up a shitshow of two egos at loggerheads while the nation does its own thing and the government gets barely anything done. But we’re hardly strangers to a do-nothing government. Eventually, they’d realize that working together will get more done than constantly locking horns, and after a few pathetic administrations, we’d see a renewal of both sides of the aisle working together as they purge the more contentious and worthless members of each party that are just holding us all back with their hatred and constant bickering and backbiting and betrayal.

And then the high fades and I remember that nothing good will ever happen again, the Republican-Controlled Senate and their pet Blue Dogs will end up acquitting Trump, life is a long, downward spiral to oblivion, and genuine compromise is impossible because of extremists on all sides and corporate bribery lurking in every handshake.

And I cry a little.

That will never happen. It will just lead to a fail safe where the losing Party can guarantee a check in the executive branch. It will also lead to a President being saddled with a VP who constantly undermines him and weakens his position. Trust me, you wouldn’t want President Obama negotiating the Iran deal while Vice President Romney is slamming the whole thing and letting the world know half the American government has no intention of honoring it.

You want to force compromise. Break up the parties. Have a Tea Party, Republican Party, Democrat Party, and Progressive Party. No side will ever be able to have a majority in Congress and they will have to compromise with others to get anything done and Party leadership won’t be able to be as ironclad. Two parties was always going to lead to this scenario

[Billy Batson]

Feel the Bern:
https://twitter.com/EmersonPolling/s...13796487098369
Iowa Emerson College/
@7News
Poll:

Democratic Caucus:

30%
@BernieSanders

21%
@JoeBiden

13%
@amyklobuchar

11%
@ewarren

10%
@PeteButtigieg

5%
@TomSteyer

5%
@AndrewYang

5%
@TulsiGabbard
https://t.co/KHKW9nZv49?amp=1

[WestPhillyPunisher]

John Bolton Reportedly Recalls Trump Tying Ukraine Aid To Biden Investigation

The former national security adviser described the account in drafts of his book outline obtained by The New York Times. Meanwhile....

Ex-GOP Lawmaker David Jolly Puts Republican Senators On Notice After Bolton Book Report

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Fox News Host Steve Hilton Calls Out ‘Baby’ Mike Pompeo Over NPR Attack

Steve Hilton urges the secretary of state to apologize to “All Things Considered” cohost Mary Louise Kelly after profanity-laced tirade. Not happening. Just like Trump for whom the words, "I'm sorry" are not in his vocabulary, Pompous Pompeo won't apologize. If anything, look for him to play the victim card instead. Speaking of which....

**********

Major Veterans Group Calls On Trump To Apologize For Downplaying Troops’ Injuries

Veterans of Foreign Wars said it couldn’t “stand idle” after Trump’s “misguided” comments about troop injuries following a recent attack by Iran. Like above, not happening. In Trump's warped mind, humility is for suckers, and he'll never admit he said or did something wrong.

**********

2 New Coronavirus Cases Confirmed In The U.S., Bringing Total To 5

The latest cases were confirmed in California and Arizona. Both individuals recently traveled to Wuhan, China.

**********

Rep. Adam Schiff Says Trump Tweet About Paying ‘A Price’ Was Intended As A Threat

On Sunday, Trump ominously alluded to a “price” the California representative will eventually pay for his involvement in ongoing impeachment proceedings. Isn't it nice that the President of the United States acts more like a Mafia don instead of a statesman (sarcastically speaking)?

[Michael Watkins]

People do realize he ran against someone who threw the party in turmoil in 2008 right? Like she was legit still in the race when she could only win if superdelegates went rogue for her and the party was having behind the scenes meetings to get her to lay-off and endorse Obama at the convention.

So no he didn’t stay in long after any other politician would have left defeated

they realize it. but propaganda (well, CNN & MSNBC help) is all that they have left.

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/d...inton-campaign

[Michael Watkins]

The argument being made is that it's hypocritical to use this as a reason to back Bernie over Biden, rather than anyone saying anything untrue about Bernie.

that is not what i saw when i ventured into this thread. it was a string of posts targeted at smearing Sanders. i simply reacted to it. Biden's supporters brought up the crime bill while not mentioning that Biden authored it. and they brought up the support from Joe Rogan without mentioning Biden's compromise with segregationists. My reasons for backing Warren and Biden are their proposed policies. i lean left. they lean left. Biden is a centrist who favors negotiating with the republicans who continue to embrace the extreme right. and you're a republican. so i'm not sure why you're even involved in this "discussion."

[aja_christopher]

It’s a two street on here. There’s plenty of people on here who fall in the anti Sanders camp that have stretched things beyond the limit of credible reasonability to criticize Sanders while in the same breath giving preferred candidates a pass for much worse.

What you've had for the past week or so is people asking what legislation Sanders has passed, how he will pay for his proposals, how he will get it through Congress, and how he will convince both Congress and the public that we should raise taxes to pay for it.

These are real questions that will come up in the general election and beyond -- and Rogan is fair game as well since that is an issue with many on the left.

And we've yet to see any real answers for that -- just people defending attacking Biden and defending Sanders like he is above question.

Don't misrepresent and blame others just because you can't answer those questions with factual information.

[Michael Watkins]

What you've had for the past week or so is people asking what legislation Sanders has passed, how he will pay for his proposals, how he will get it through Congress, and how he will convince both Congress and the public that we should raise taxes to pay for it.

those are fair questions.

These are real questions that will come up in the general election and beyond -- and Rogan is fair game as well since that is an issue with many on the left.

this is propaganda and completely distracts from whatever case you thought that you were making.

[aja_christopher]

those are fair questions.



this is propaganda and completely distracts from whatever case you thought that you were making.

So answer them instead of trying to slander everyone you disagree with.

It does you no favors that the only time Sanders supporters mention black voters is to attack Biden on a bill Sanders also voted for -- stop using black people as "propaganda" for your candidate.

[Steel Inquisitor]

that is not what i saw when i ventured into this thread. it was a string of posts targeted at smearing Sanders. i simply reacted to it. Biden's supporters brought up the crime bill while not mentioning that Biden authored it. and they brought up the support from Joe Rogan without mentioning Biden's compromise with segregationists. My reasons for backing Warren and Biden are their proposed policies. i lean left. they lean left.

Biden has many bad decisions in his past which will bite him in the general, so does Bernie Sanders and I'm not talking about in the past as in the recent primaries. He's allied himself with controversial figures, some of which are the same controversial people from the last primaries (Killer Mike) and others like Cenk Uyger and Joe Rogan. He had to walk back on Cenk, is he going to do that with Rogan? Rogan's remarkably worse than Cenk was and Cenk's a former Republican himself that got kicked out of the Justice Democrats from hurting their image when his past caught up.

Do you want the Alt-Right in the Democratic coalition? That's what Rogan provides.

https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/5...edia-ecosystem

“Even though people like Rubin and Rogan are the most formalized journalistic formats of any of the people in the network, they still draw a lot from YouTube culture and they still have this element of hanging out,” Lewis said. “A lot of Rubin’s guests he will introduce as his friends. They will advertise the channels of the people that are hosting. So a lot of times, if they aren’t explicitly pushing back or are critical of the people that they have on the shows, they can act as an implicit endorsement or even advertisement for other people’s content.”What's disturbing is that Sanders' and his campaign isn't pushing back against the negative aspects of Rogan's programming and are willing to increase his platform for voters he may not get. The "endorsement" from Sanders campaign is going to do more for Rogan than the opposite.

You're not getting policies, you're getting a candidate with all their strengths, flaws and history. Policies only get so far as the people being able to push them are with negotiation and Bernie Sanders loses in that contest with candidates like Warren and Klobuchar - who are known for passing legislation.

Biden is a centrist who favors negotiating with the republicans who continue to embrace the extreme right. and you're a republican. so i'm not sure why you're even involved in this "discussion."

A tactic which has shown more progress than not giving an inch like Bernie Sanders' willingness to not compromise, or the fact he's relying on doing that while focusing on activists pressuring congress against the who oppose him. What's jarring is how Sanders campaign is embracing the extreme right, as well, as Rogan shows.

[Michael Watkins]

So answer them instead of trying to slander everyone you disagree with.

It does you no favors that the only time Sanders supporters mention black voters is to attack Biden on a bill Sanders also voted for -- stop using black people as "propaganda" for your candidate.

you literally used black and/or trans people as propaganda for your candidate.

[Tendrin]

you literally used black and/or trans people as propaganda for your candidate.

Oh brother.

[Michael Watkins]

A tactic which has shown more progress than not giving an inch like Bernie Sanders' willingness to not compromise, or the fact he's relying on doing that while focusing on activists pressuring congress against the who oppose him. What's jarring is how Sanders campaign is embracing the extreme right, as well, as Rogan shows.

it's working great for Republicans. the alt-right can vote for Sanders if they like. He doesn't budge on his core values. he's not catering to them. can you say the same for Biden?