All purpose news and politics thread part v: The quickening

[Tazirai]

Sometimes that's valid. But it's just as invalid to pretend they don't exist. We're in a discussion with almost all progressives. I'm an independent with mostly progressive policy positions, but one of the things that bugs me most about the left is that they pretend "SJW"s or "Bernie Bros" don't exist. When it's those obnoxious *****s that are driving some voters straight into the arms of Republicans.

Yeah, Republicans use the terms to be dismissive, but it works (in part) because those groups are real. And REAL annoying.

Do other Candidates Bros and sisters exist? Or is it just Bernie? Remember the Obama Boy slur? Do they still exist? What about Hillaries PUMAS?

We just go after Sanders...

Also if people aren't fighting for Social Justice, then what's the point?

Before-bernie-bros-there-were-obama-boys

Hillary Backers Dissing ‘Obama Boys’ and ‘Bernie Bros’ Hurts Feminism
This isn't the first time women's rights have been politicized by Clinton

‘Bernie Bros’ And ‘Obama Boys’: Echoes Of 2008 In Media’s Clinton-Sanders Pundit Clash


Clinton: 'Sexism' in '08 Obama camp

Obama has lost women 'with sexist campaign'
Geraldine Ferraro, the only woman to run on a major party presidential ticket and a supporter of Hillary Clinton, has accused Barack Obama of conducting a "terribly sexist" campaign.

There is literally no winning with the Clinton Smear machine. EVER.

[Tazirai]

During the 2016 Democratic Primaries, I posted on Facebook that I supported Bernie Sanders and would vote for him in my state's primary. But I also said that I would vote for Hillary Clinton in November if she was named the Democratic Nominee. For that, I was called a Hillary-bot, not by some random Bernie-Bro, no I was called a Hillary-bot by Jeff Weaver, Bernie's campaign manager. Now granted, Weaver is not Bernie's campaign manager this time around, but he still works for the campaign and has some measure of influence. What does that tell you?

What does it tell you that people who hate Bernie like Barnie Frank got posted to the DNC Election Committee?
By Hillary and Obama people.

[Malvolio]

What does it tell you that people who hate Bernie like Barnie Frank got posted to the DNC Election Committee?
By Hillary and Obama people.

I don't know. Did Barney Frank ever insult you personally on social media?

[Theleviathan]

Do other Candidates Bros and sisters exist? Or is it just Bernie? Remember the Obama Boy slur? Do they still exist? What about Hillaries PUMAS?

We just go after Sanders...

Also if people aren't fighting for Social Justice, then what's the point?

Before-bernie-bros-there-were-obama-boys

Pretty sure I have said twice that other similar groups exist. I only emphasized Bernie Bros because someone literally tried to deny their existence or that they posed any problem.

[aja_christopher]

Do other Candidates Bros and sisters exist? Or is it just Bernie? Remember the Obama Boy slur? Do they still exist? What about Hillaries PUMAS?

We just go after Sanders...

It's only with Sanders that we've seen this kind of behavior -- most likely because his supporters attack the Democratic establishment as a whole, while simultaneously trying to benefit from it's political platform.

Instead of discussing Sanders policies, you continue to argue and attack other Democrats -- speaking of which, you still have yet to answer which "multiple posts" answered my questions regarding Sanders' policies and how he will pay for them, how progressives fare in general elections as opposed to moderates, and what Sanders has done to address African-American issues directly.

Just say which numbers were the replies to my questions and I'll check them out.

[Theleviathan]

What are these problems the so called Bernie Bros create and what damage do these problems cause?

I mean, it seems like you keep trying to say they don't exist and don't cause problems. The very fact we're having this conversation at all, with a name like "Bernie Bros" is evidence in and of itself. Here are a variety of links:

https://www.vox.com/2016/2/4/1091871...bro-bernie-bro
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/27/u...ters-2020.html
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics...tation/605836/

That was just in the first 5-10 links in one google search. If what Knight posted is acceptable evidence, there is no shortage of it out there.

[The Overlord]

Pretty sure I have said twice that other similar groups exist. I only emphasized Bernie Bros because someone literally tried to deny their existence or that they posed any problem.

Unless anyone has any real evidence that Bernie's base is more toxic than any other base, this whole thing feels like a side show the vast majority of voters do not care about. Do we debate policy or talk about distractions that do not matter to most people?

Also is complaining about Bernie Bros the best way fo promote left wing unity against Trump?

I mean, it seems like you keep trying to say they don't exist and don't cause problems. The very fact we're having this conversation at all, with a name like "Bernie Bros" is evidence in and of itself. Here are a variety of links:

https://www.vox.com/2016/2/4/1091871...bro-bernie-bro
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/27/u...ters-2020.html
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics...tation/605836/

That was just in the first 5-10 links in one google search. If what Knight posted is acceptable evidence, there is no shortage of it out there.

And there is no evidence this is overblown?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.the...ttacks-netflix

[numberthirty]

...

Is this something to emulate?

Not really about "Emulate..."

If I'm actually accounting for reality...

I know that former President Obama didn't have a very specific plan for how he was going to get a public option through Congress to actually have a chance at forcing competing private market "For Profit..." health care plans to charge regular Americans less for coverage.

Not even treatment. Just coverage.

Now...

I'm seeing a situation where every single thing Sanders is talking about doing has to be something that comes with a guarantee that it will get through Congress and the numbers worked out down to the penny.

Which is an entirely different standard than the last two Presidents have been held to.

While I can get that some might want to do so, it's not like I'm not going to point out the reality of what is happening.

[aja_christopher]

I mean, it seems like you keep trying to say they don't exist and don't cause problems. The very fact we're having this conversation at all, with a name like "Bernie Bros" is evidence in and of itself. Here are a variety of links:

https://www.vox.com/2016/2/4/1091871...bro-bernie-bro
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/27/u...ters-2020.html
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics...tation/605836/

That was just in the first 5-10 links in one google search. If what Knight posted is acceptable evidence, there is no shortage of it out there.

[Theleviathan]

Unless anyone has any real evidence that Bernie's base is more toxic than any other base, this whole thing feels like a side show the vast majority of voters do not care about. Do we debate policy or talk about distractions that do not matter to most people?

Also is complaining about Bernie Bros the best way fo promote left wing unity against Trump?

Bernie Bros are more toxic than any segment of Biden's base. Why? Because there is no current parallel. Nor is there for Klobuchar. Or Warren. Or Bloomberg. Etc. Only Bernie in the current field has that issue. That's simply a fact, I'm just not sure why it matters other than as a distraction or minimization of the issue.

The only thing I'm complaining about is your insistence on denial. A denial that even Sanders and many of his top surrogates have recognized, apologized for, and attempted to correct. What I think is still problematic, and it reared it's ugly head with the Warren/Sanders flap, is that a vocal part of his support doesn't care to change that problematic behavior. Now, maybe he thinks they will be helpful with Trump and doesn't want to scare them off. That might be reasonable as a long-term strategy, though it kinda sucks in the short term.

[Theleviathan]

Well...that was rough. I can't wait to see how that isn't "quantifiable" or play some kind of "who started it" retort.

I feel like I should make this point simply again: What is labeled as the Bernie Bros phenomenon is real. It's shitty. It's a small subset of Bernie supporters. It causes problems. It should be confronted so the problems are minimized.

Denying it is The Stupid.

[Tazirai]

It's only with Sanders that we've seen this kind of behavior -- most likely because his supporters attack the Democratic establishment as a whole, while simultaneously trying to benefit from it's political platform.

Instead of discussing Sanders policies, you continue to argue and attack other Democrats -- speaking of which, you still have yet to answer which "multiple posts" answered my questions regarding Sanders' policies and how he will pay for them, how progressives fare in general elections as opposed to moderates, and what Sanders has done to address African-American issues directly.

Just say which numbers were the replies to my questions and I'll check them out.

Lol, not it's not. I gotta look for the numbers it's a ways back now.

We start a third party and Democrats hate us, we run as Democrats and Democrats hate us. There's no winning with Democrats.
Bros started as a Sexism charge against white males. But it ignores the people of color and the 51% support Bernie has from actual women.

[The Overlord]

Bernie Bros are more toxic than any segment of Biden's base. Why? Because there is no current parallel. Nor is there for Klobuchar. Or Warren. Or Bloomberg. Etc. Only Bernie in the current field has that issue. That's simply a fact, I'm just not sure why it matters other than as a distraction or minimization of the issue.

The only thing I'm complaining about is your insistence on denial. A denial that even Sanders and many of his top surrogates have recognized, apologized for, and attempted to correct. What I think is still problematic, and it reared it's ugly head with the Warren/Sanders flap, is that a vocal part of his support doesn't care to change that problematic behavior. Now, maybe he thinks they will be helpful with Trump and doesn't want to scare them off. That might be reasonable as a long-term strategy, though it kinda sucks in the short term.

Can you prove this or do you only have anecdotal evidence? If the vast majority of Bernie supporters are not Bros, what this the point of talking about these supposed Bernie Bros? What is this supposed achieve? Is just to promote a massive generalization of movement due to a few bad actors?

[aja_christopher]

I'm seeing a situation where every single thing Sanders is talking about doing has to be something that comes with a guarantee that it will get through Congress and the numbers worked out down to the penny.

No you're not -- stop lying. No one asked you to work it out "to the last penny."

I just asked you how he will pay for his policies, how he will pass legislation in Congress and how many progressives win elections as opposed to moderates.

And I didn't ask for a guarantee of anything -- you're just making things up at this point to try to save face.

Tellingly, none of what you said answers anything that was asked -- it's just more excuses not to give direct answers.

Just be honest and say you can't answer those questions and stop making up lies about those who asked the questions.

[Celgress]

If people are so thin skinned that they vote for racists and homophobes then thats their own damn fault

Are we talking about Trump, or Sanders, or both? At this point, I must admit I'm confused.