All purpose news and politics thread part v: The quickening

[babyblob]

One source isn't enough

Michael Bloomberg is running for president in 2020. Here's everything we know about the candidate and how he stacks up against the competition.

A History of Bloomberg’s Successes and Failures

How Michael Bloomberg Went From Bond Trader To Billionaire Media Mogul With One Incredible Machine

Michael Bloomberg

Michael Bloomberg

THE MANY LIVES OF MICHAEL BLOOMBERG

Thank you very much. Will spend the next couple of days reading through those.

[Celgress]

Do you actually talk to a lot of people about this because you aren’t making good arguments and quite frankly by any logical standard, your arguments could be extrapolated to so many it becomes meaningless. Tbh it just makes me think you talk to a lot of unknowledgeable people if I’m being completely honest.

Also the one link you actually decided to analyze actually had no real relevancy to what the poster you were arguing with was saying. Again multiple people called you out on that.

Likewise, as previously stated, I have degrees studying international politics and the histories and underlying principles embedded in them. Whatever your friends are telling you sounds rather inconsequential at this point.

There is no need to be insulting. Those who cannot attack the message often attack the messenger. Before you say anything in response remember you are the one who insulted me first I never questioned your intelligence.

I stated that Sanders and many of his supporters, his movement if you will, fit neatly into the commonly accepted definition of political extremism and showed evidence of what constitutes said definition. If you disagree fine but I've more than proven my case. If you can't accept that Trump and Sanders represent two sides of the same extremist coin fine but don't say I'm wrong when the majority of experts support my position (by all means do your own research and look them up) simply because you don't agree with it. The one link I did provide contains a treasure trove of footnotes, make use of them if you so desire.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_True_Believer

Here are a few more

https://www.amazon.ca/Destroying-Wor.../dp/0805065113

https://www.sv.uio.no/c-rex/english/

https://www.unodc.org/e4j/en/terrori...extremism.html

https://www.thoughtco.com/what-is-a-...remist-1857297

Edit - "Political extremists often show disdain for the rights and liberties of others but resent the limitations of their own activities. Extremists often exhibit ironic qualities; they favor censorship of their enemies but use intimidation and manipulation to spread their own assertions and claims, for example. Some claim God is on their side of an issue and they often use religion as an excuse for acts of violence." (Taken from the above link)

Interesting how the first portion of the above statement fits the "Bernie Bros" perfectly especially their campaigns against Hillary Clinton, Joe Biden and their supporters along with the Media to name but three such "enemies".

[Steel Inquisitor]

That's why people were freaking out about the Rogan endorsement, Bernie does hold enough appeal to that demographic if he chooses to once again ask for their support, as it were. The question is whether this will be worth it in the long run given the possibility of alienating more solidly left wing folks, but at the very least it's an option. The other candidates don't have a snowball's chance in hell of appealing to these voters, and make no mistake, these are who swing voters are by and large, not enlightened centrists committed to neutrality in all things.

People were upset about Rogan due to the fact he's ok appealing to the Alt-Right, he avoids accountability for his responsibilities while liking the power he gets from it, and he's got a terrible history of racism, sexism and transphobia. Sanders does have appeals to moderates and conservatives except he seems to do superbly with "outsiders" not traditional ones in the party. The drawback with Sanders is that he won't have stable backing from voters who are reliable Dem voting blocs. His primary base are young people, when everyone else relies them to push them over.

Edit: Would be curious to know what Sanders knows about Rogan, it would tell a lot about him if he didn't care about Rogan's baggage.

Of course all mass political movements are going to have aspects in common, there are just fundamental strategies involved in organizing and mobilizing a large number of behind a cause that everyone has to follow if they want to gain traction. What you were asserting though, was that ALL mass movements are inherently bad because some of them have turned out badly, which of course makes no sense because that would mean any leader with popular support would be on the same level as Hitler.

Sanders isn't Communist but he's shown he's ok reaching out to people who are, they're among his most steady supporters since he's the only one who gets their values as a politician. Except we've seen that there are numerous and constant toxic people among his fan base and on his staff. Without the he wouldn't have gotten this far, he's managed to alienate a large section of the party and has no intentions of earning their trust.

[Celgress]

So the death of innocents is an acceptable price to you.

Gotcha.

Oh, and Libya and Honduras aren't exactly stable or safe right now.

I don't know what Clinton's reasoning was behind these choices (much of that information remains classified) nor if she made them herself (which seems unlikely). I can't make a value judgment.

I will say that countries which routinely imprisoned their (meaning the people's) former political figures become failed or failing states ruled by chaos. Few people want to run for office if there is a high likelihood of being imprisoned (or executed) once their term expires.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

I don't know what Clinton's reasoning was behind these choices (much of that information remains classified) nor if she made them herself (which seems unlikely). I can't make a value judgment.

You keep deriding those you call extremists, but here you are giving some of the most powerful political figures in the world a pass for murder, and ruining the lives of those in other countries.

[Celgress]

You keep deriding those you call extremists, but here you are giving some of the most powerful political figures in the world a pass for murder, and ruining the lives of those in other countries.

Politicians have to make terrible choices, choices I would never want to make. If we (the public alongside later political figures) constantly second guess these choices (unless there is clear evidence of abuse of power or process) there would be anarchy. Western-style liberal democracy isn't a perfect system, by any means, but it is better than the alternatives of anarchy and authoritarianism.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

Politicians have to make terrible choices, choices I would never want to make. If we (the public alongside later political figures) constantly second guess these choices (unless there is clear evidence of abuse of power or process) after the fact there would be anarchy.

Gotcha.

We have to blow kids up or the world will be thrown into chaos. We also can't pushback against this global murder or the world will be thrown into chaos.

[Celgress]

Gotcha.

We have to blow kids up or the world will be thrown into chaos. We also can't pushback against this global murder or the world will be thrown into chaos.

Alrigghttttttttttttyyyyyyyy, I never said those things are okay. You are oversimplifying manners to the extreme.

I'll just leave this here and see myself out -

"A straw man is a form of argument and an informal fallacy based on giving the impression of refuting an opponent's argument, while actually refuting an argument that was not presented by that opponent. One who engages in this fallacy is said to be "attacking a straw man"."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

[TriggerWarning]

Edit - "Political extremists often show disdain for the rights and liberties of others but resent the limitations of their own activities. Extremists often exhibit ironic qualities; they favor censorship of their enemies but use intimidation and manipulation to spread their own assertions and claims, for example. Some claim God is on their side of an issue and they often use religion as an excuse for acts of violence." (Taken from the above link)

Interesting how the first portion of the above statement fits the "Bernie Bros" perfectly especially their campaigns against Hillary Clinton, Joe Biden and their supporters along with the Media to name but three such "enemies".

I'm getting trashed right now by a bunch of Bernie Bros on a local forum for pointing out that his medicare for all plan is going to cost me a crap load of money over my current health plan. They are going very personal and acting like I'm the 1% when I'm merely middle class.

Right now my wife's and my combined income last year was $140,000. We are solidly middle class for our area but by no means the 1%. I pay $1848 a year for health insurance through my company insurance to cover my us and our two kids. My wife's employer covers 100% of her coverage for just her so we only cover her through it since its basically free. Under the Bernie medicare for all plan our costs would go to close to $5000 a year. I pointed out how bad a deal that would be for me and how I felt it was unfair that his plan was going to be built on the backs of the middle class people like me rather than the 1% like many claim it will be. Next thing I know it was Bernie Bro gangbang on me and my comment. A few people agree with me but the rest act like I just raped one of Bernies grandchildren.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

Alrigghttttttttttttyyyyyyyy, I never said those things are okay. You are oversimplifying manners to the extreme.

The fact is that is what you were excusing, what you were justifying.

This is like when Republicans feign disapproval over ICE concentration camps but still justify them by saying there's no other option.

I'll leave you with this.

[numberthirty]

There is no need to be insulting. Those who cannot attack the message often attack the messenger. Before you say anything in response remember you are the one who insulted me first I never questioned your intelligence.

I stated that Sanders and many of his supporters, his movement if you will, fit neatly into the commonly accepted definition of political extremism and showed evidence of what constitutes said definition. If you disagree fine but I've more than proven my case. If you can't accept that Trump and Sanders represent two sides of the same extremist coin fine but don't say I'm wrong when the majority of experts support my position (by all means do your own research and look them up) simply because you don't agree with it. The one link I did provide contains a treasure trove of footnotes, make use of them if you so desire.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_True_Believer

Here are a few more

https://www.amazon.ca/Destroying-Wor.../dp/0805065113

https://www.sv.uio.no/c-rex/english/

https://www.unodc.org/e4j/en/terrori...extremism.html

https://www.thoughtco.com/what-is-a-...remist-1857297

Edit - "Political extremists often show disdain for the rights and liberties of others but resent the limitations of their own activities. Extremists often exhibit ironic qualities; they favor censorship of their enemies but use intimidation and manipulation to spread their own assertions and claims, for example. Some claim God is on their side of an issue and they often use religion as an excuse for acts of violence." (Taken from the above link)

Interesting how the first portion of the above statement fits the "Bernie Bros" perfectly especially their campaigns against Hillary Clinton, Joe Biden and their supporters along with the Media to name but three such "enemies".

Sure...

And those definitions have not been put in place by "Status Quo..."/"Let Us Keep Buying Governments..." sort of interests.

It's not like folks(unions being an obvious example) have had an entire campaign of fear mongering trying to keep them from making any actual progress...

[Tami]

Just an example of what to look out for

When Iran Took Americans Hostage, Bernie Backed Iran’s Defenders

vs

Did Bernie Sanders Express Support for Iran During ’79 Hostage Crisis?: A widely shared meme contained several key falsehoods about the independent Vermont senator's former association with the Socialist Workers Party.

[numberthirty]

Just an example of what to look out for

When Iran Took Americans Hostage, Bernie Backed Iran’s Defenders

vs

Did Bernie Sanders Express Support for Iran During ’79 Hostage Crisis?: A widely shared meme contained several key falsehoods about the independent Vermont senator's former association with the Socialist Workers Party.

That folks are lying about Sanders, and leaving things out of what he has actually said?

Not much of a shocker...

[numberthirty]

I'm getting trashed right now by a bunch of Bernie Bros on a local forum for pointing out that his medicare for all plan is going to cost me a crap load of money over my current health plan. They are going very personal and acting like I'm the 1% when I'm merely middle class.

Right now my wife's and my combined income last year was $140,000. We are solidly middle class for our area but by no means the 1%. I pay $1848 a year for health insurance through my company insurance to cover my us and our two kids. My wife's employer covers 100% of her coverage for just her so we only cover her through it since its basically free. Under the Bernie medicare for all plan our costs would go to close to $5000 a year. I pointed out how bad a deal that would be for me and how I felt it was unfair that his plan was going to be built on the backs of the middle class people like me rather than the 1% like many claim it will be. Next thing I know it was Bernie Bro gangbang on me and my comment. A few people agree with me but the rest act like I just raped one of Bernies grandchildren.

Where are the numbers that show that "Bernie Medicare For All Plan..." would cost you that?

Never mind that you are leaving another incredibly obvious element out of you "It Will Rip Me Off!!..." equation.

[Tami]

Paid social media influencers dip toes in U.S. 2020 election

SAN FRANCISCO (Reuters) - Last week, food and travel blogger Alycia Chrosniak got an unusual alert on her phone: Michael Bloomberg’s presidential campaign was inviting her to earn $150 by making content about why she supported the billionaire Democratic candidate in the U.S. election.

“It feels weird to put out an ad supporting a person versus a product,” said Chrosniak, who is based in Connecticut and usually creates sponsored content for restaurants or hotel brands. She said Bloomberg was not her “top choice” candidate and said she did not take up the offer.

The tactic of paying micro-influencers - people with a few thousand engaged social media followers - to spread political messages or make content is gathering momentum ahead of the 2020 race, though some industry players remain wary.

Several agencies who connect influencers with brands told Reuters they had been approached by political campaigns, though they would not name individual politicians or organizations.