All purpose news and politics thread part v: The quickening

[Tami]

[Tami]

China spent years collecting Americans' personal information. The U.S. just called it out.

When Attorney General William Barr announced Monday that the U.S. had charged four Chinese military hackers in the giant Equifax hack of 2017, he also confirmed something that cybersecurity experts had long suspected: China was also behind the hack of information on some 500 million Marriott hotel guests in 2018.

Barr also mentioned the 2015 hack of the Office of Personnel Management, another major breach that included sensitive information from about 21.5 million Americans who had done work for the federal government.

In doing so, Barr publicly confirmed that China has been collecting troves of personal data on U.S. citizens for years.

Beginning around 2014, a host of American organizations that store personal identifying information were hacked, with either the government or major private cybersecurity firms attributing China’s Ministry of State Security as the culprit each time. Personal identifying information, or PII, includes names, addresses, birthdays and Social Security numbers.

[Gray Lensman]

I'm getting trashed right now by a bunch of Bernie Bros on a local forum for pointing out that his medicare for all plan is going to cost me a crap load of money over my current health plan. They are going very personal and acting like I'm the 1% when I'm merely middle class.

Right now myif we's and my combined income last year was $140,000. We are solidly middle class for our area but by no means the 1%. I pay $1848 a year for health insurance through my company insurance to cover my us and our two kids. My wife's employer covers 100% of her coverage for just her so we only cover her through it since its basically free. Under the Bernie medicare for all plan our costs would go to close to $5000 a year. I pointed out how bad a deal that would be for me and how I felt it was unfair that his plan was going to be built on the backs of the middle class people like me rather than the 1% like many claim it will be. Next thing I know it was Bernie Bro gangbang on me and my comment. A few people agree with me but the rest act like I just raped one of Bernies grandchildren.

I'm just going to compare some numbers. I pay about $3500 per year for health insurance, and that's with a discount for taking the wellness physical and being smoke free - otherwise it would be about $5000 for only two people. If you can cover a family for under $2000 a year you have an incredibly good health plan, something beyond what the majority of the country has.

And while I am aware that $140K per year isn't anywhere near the 1%, anywhere I have lived or looked into living it is at least on the cusp of upper middle class rather than in the middle block. You are in the top 20% (82nd percentile) with that amount.

[Mister Mets]

An Unsettling New Theory: There Is No Swing Voter





I majored in Political Science for 1 year before switching majors in college. This makes me wish I had stayed a Poly Sci major.

Wouldn't the midterms suggest that swing voters still play a role?

Quinnipiac has done a poll about the preferences of voters in the primary by race.

Quinnipiac Dem WH poll by race

White
Sanders 22%
Warren 16%
Bloomberg 15%
Biden 14%
Buttigieg 14%
Klobuchar 6%

Black
Biden 27%
Bloomberg 22%
Sanders 19%
Warren 8%
Buttigieg 4%

[KNIGHT OF THE LAKE]

There is no need to be insulting. Those who cannot attack the message often attack the messenger. Before you say anything in response remember you are the one who insulted me first I never questioned your intelligence.

I stated that Sanders and many of his supporters, his movement if you will, fit neatly into the commonly accepted definition of political extremism and showed evidence of what constitutes said definition. If you disagree fine but I've more than proven my case. If you can't accept that Trump and Sanders represent two sides of the same extremist coin fine but don't say I'm wrong when the majority of experts support my position (by all means do your own research and look them up) simply because you don't agree with it. The one link I did provide contains a treasure trove of footnotes, make use of them if you so desire.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_True_Believer

Here are a few more

https://www.amazon.ca/Destroying-Wor.../dp/0805065113

https://www.sv.uio.no/c-rex/english/

https://www.unodc.org/e4j/en/terrori...extremism.html

https://www.thoughtco.com/what-is-a-...remist-1857297

Edit - "Political extremists often show disdain for the rights and liberties of others but resent the limitations of their own activities. Extremists often exhibit ironic qualities; they favor censorship of their enemies but use intimidation and manipulation to spread their own assertions and claims, for example. Some claim God is on their side of an issue and they often use religion as an excuse for acts of violence." (Taken from the above link)

Interesting how the first portion of the above statement fits the "Bernie Bros" perfectly especially their campaigns against Hillary Clinton, Joe Biden and their supporters along with the Media to name but three such "enemies".

Spare me the pity party. There wasn't much to work on with your responses because you took questions about policy and ideology and went straight for theory. Theory btw that is vague enough for anyone to abitarily apply it to any politician. I could easily apply anything contained in your links to Obama, Hillary, Biden etc. You are just applying your own biases to assume a singular truth

[Superbat]

[Theleviathan]

Where are the numbers that show that "Bernie Medicare For All Plan..." would cost you that?

Never mind that you are leaving another incredibly obvious element out of you "It Will Rip Me Off!!..." equation.

Just want to point out....TriggerWarning's question will be a real question Bernie has to address. Responses like this by his supporters will not help him navigate that successfully.

[numberthirty]

Just want to point out....TriggerWarning's question will be a real question Bernie has to address. Responses like this by his supporters will not help him navigate that successfully.

Sure...

If someone hasn't thought something all the way through, no one should point that out.

Just give them a "Yep... You've got a good point." when they are leaving more than half of what goes into the equation out.

[numberthirty]

Never mind that I didn't even bother with asking "Is Your Wife Being Treated Fairly In A Situation Where Her Insurance Will Only Cover Her?..."

If folks are busy asking Sanders that sort of a question but they cannot consider their own situation?

We're way past the point where we should be having that discussion with each other. Even if there isn't a really polite way to break the ice when it comes to doing so.

[Theleviathan]

Sure...

If someone hasn't thought something all the way through, no one should point that out.

Just give them a "Yep... You've got a good point." when they are leaving more than half of what goes into the equation out.

Then explain it. Being an ass to a legitimate question, while a classic example to answer the "Why do Bernie supporters get on people's nerves?" question, does absolutely nothing to help. That is a person asking questions, having doubts, and seeking clarity and your response to it was to be a snarky dick.

Bernie will have to have a message to exactly that kind of concern. If you can't help, you could help him out by just avoiding any contributions.

[KNIGHT OF THE LAKE]

Just want to point out....TriggerWarning's question will be a real question Bernie has to address. Responses like this by his supporters will not help him navigate that successfully.

No if you are going ask a question, the burden is on you to show that it as reasonable ask based in reality. You don’t get to have a fantasy hypothetical standard for the candidate you don’t like.

Also every candidate has questions to answer on healthcare. Biden has to answer how he’s going to expand a policy that the courts have been slowly washing away at that never actually accomplished it’s goal of covering everyone and lowering healthcare costs to be truly affordable. Buttigieg has to answer for his if he expands Medicare “for all who want it” that the insurance companies won’t pawn the most vulnerable off on the public plan and make it unfeasible. Warren’s going to have to explain how her healthcare plan which is tied to immigration will pass and how she can guarantee the offset of a tax won’t be passed on to employee salaries.


This thread has tendency to ask arbitrarily hypotheticals that could apply to any candidate and act like Bernie is the only candidate that has that obligation, then gets mad when those same question are posed to others.

Like I can’t count the amount of times I heard that Bernie didn’t do well with POC’s and was bad for AA’s. Constant questions about how he would appeal to them (he’s the second best at it). Then the same people that that bombarded the thread with that narrative starter entertaining Buttigieg who has zero African American support and a racial scandal in his own police department. There’s no level of consistency

[numberthirty]

Then explain it. Being an ass to a legitimate question, while a classic example to answer the "Why do Bernie supporters get on people's nerves?" question, does absolutely nothing to help. That is a person asking questions, having doubts, and seeking clarity and your response to it was to be a snarky dick.

Bernie will have to have a message to exactly that kind of concern. If you can't help, you could help him out by just avoiding any contributions.

If I have seen something else someone has said that leads me to believe that they might need a short jolt to snap them out of what their preconceived notions seem to be?

What then?

Because I did that with a pretty specific previous instance of how someone seems to see things in mind.

If you don't see "You" as "Us"?

I might have to get that out of the way just to see if there is even an point in having a discussion.

[KNIGHT OF THE LAKE]

Then explain it. Being an ass to a legitimate question, while a classic example to answer the "Why do Bernie supporters get on people's nerves?" question, does absolutely nothing to help. That is a person asking questions, having doubts, and seeking clarity and your response to it was to be a snarky dick.

Bernie will have to have a message to exactly that kind of concern. If you can't help, you could help him out by just avoiding any contributions.

Well it’s very simple. That $5000 dollar figure comes from an inaccurate understanding of Bernie’s plan that Biden state’s in debate. A huge chuck of that is offset by a tax raise on the wealthy and an employer burdens.

For a single person making under 120k or a family of 4 making under 250k, most analysts who studied the plan determined the most people would pay virtually the same or less once everything was hashed out including the lack of premiums once you look at it holistically.

So I mean if we are being blunt, the correct answer is that he is basing his information on a partial understanding of the plan that was deliberately framed in an inaccurate light by an opponent that most unbiased analysts already debunked

[Steel Inquisitor]

Spare me the pity party. There wasn't much to work on with your responses because you took questions about policy and ideology and went straight for theory. Theory btw that is vague enough for anyone to abitarily apply it to any politician. I could easily apply anything contained in your links to Obama, Hillary, Biden etc. You are just applying your own biases to assume a singular truth

That's not being vague, it's quite blunt. Sanders has shown difficulties maintaining alliances with people who don't toe his line, what you're forgetting is that his own political allies will react to that badly, some of them more than others, of course. What's really strange is how Sanders is more open to someone like Joe Rogan than Barney Frank. Many of his supporters and staff are worse than him about this, yet rather than getting disciplined they're perfectly safe in his circle. This is about ideology. Not everything is about policy, this is about social skills and bureaucracy.

[Theleviathan]

No if you are going ask a question, the burden is on you to show that it as reasonable ask based in reality. You don’t get to have a fantasy hypothetical standard for the candidate you don’t like.

Also every candidate has questions to answer on healthcare. Biden has to answer how he’s going to expand a policy that the courts have been slowly washing away at that never actually accomplished it’s goal of covering everyone and lowering healthcare costs to be truly affordable. Buttigieg has to answer for his if he expands Medicare “for all who want it” that the insurance companies won’t pawn the most vulnerable off on the public plan and make it unfeasible. Warren’s going to have to explain how her healthcare plan which is tied to immigration will pass and how she can guarantee the offset of a tax won’t be passed on to employee salaries.

This thread has tendency to ask arbitrarily hypotheticals that could apply to any candidate and act like Bernie is the only candidate that has that obligation, then gets mad when those same question are posed to others.

Like I can’t count the amount of times I heard that Bernie didn’t do well with POC’s and was bad for AA’s. Constant questions about how he would appeal to them (he’s the second best at it). Then the same people that that bombarded the thread with that narrative starter entertaining Buttigieg who has zero African American support and a racial scandal in his own police department. There’s no level of consistency

THIS IS PART OF WINNING AN ELECTION!!!! Was caps enough there? Bernie is going to have many potential voters ask exactly that question, sometimes based on misinformation and sometimes based on pure ignorance. If Bernie can count on his supporters to ask like dismissive assholes, you can start counting Trump's next Presidency now. Voters are often misinformed, totally off-base with reality, and stuck on issues you may find absurd. Nevertheless, if they're willing to ask, they are worth the effort to try.

Yes, every candidate has questions to answer. However, Bernie is one of the candidate promoting the biggest fundamental changes (isn't that why you support him?) and that being the case, it will generate the most doubt and/or confusion. If you want to broaden the coalition into a winning base, being willing to combat confused questions with effective answers is key. Or at least, combat the questions with information rather than derisive, dismissive BS.

As someone who just wants Trump to lose, I look at the gymnastics you just did to turn that into a Buttigieg attack or 30 to spin that into a "damn your question is stupid" response and walk away further feeling doomed. You guys don't get it. You can't put your personal baggage aside long enough to be a good solider for Bernie and try to talk to someone. Maybe you can't. Maybe you don't understand it well enough to explain it. But for all that's good in the world, if Bernie is going to be our nominee, start practicing now. Answer questions genuinely or kiss any chance of winning goodbye.