All purpose news and politics thread part v: The quickening

[KNIGHT OF THE LAKE]

He sure does preaches about revolutionary change and wealth redistribution a lot for someone who is only a "social democrat", huh funny. If it walks like a duck, quakes like a duck, and has feathers like a duck, well, damn it's a duck in my book regardless of if it says it's a snail.

Communists believe the government should own the means of production. That is the core tenant of it. Sanders does not believe that. Socialists believe that the people should own the means of production. Sanders does not believe that either. Sanders believes we have an unchecked capitalistic society that has resulted in inequality and we need to use taxation (or even tax cuts on some programs like the miliary) to engineer some safety nets for some basic needs like healthcare and education.

No that's like looking at a dog and calling it a duck because a bunch of people that never saw what a duck or a dog looks like heard about ducks and got confused.

[KNIGHT OF THE LAKE]

This has been fun, but it is getting late where I am. Have a nice evening everyone.

PS I'm rooting for Sanders because I want to be a matchup between two extremist groups in the general election, it'll be fascinating like a living laboratory of political insanity.

Goodnight. I'm rooting for whoever can beat Trump and get us some good programs

[Rosa Luxemburg]

He sure does preaches about revolutionary change and wealth redistribution a lot for someone who is only a "social democrat", huh funny. If it walks like a duck, quakes like a duck, and has feathers like a duck, well, damn it's a duck in my book regardless of if it says it's a snail.

The revolution Sanders speaks of is getting more people involved in politics, the young, the apathetic, the working class that feels both parties have let them down. It does not involve overthrowing the government, as great as that would be.

His wealth distribution is not dissimilar to FDR's.

It seems you don't know what a social democrat is. They actually suck, just not as much as liberals.

[Celgress]

The revolution Sanders speaks of is getting more people involved in politics, the young, the apathetic, the working class that feels both parties have let them down. It does not involve overthrowing the government, as great as that would be.

His wealth distribution is not dissimilar to FDR's.

It seems you don't know what a social democrat is. They actually suck, just not as much as liberals.

Actually, I do and they tend not to preach or advocate for all of the things Sanders does (at the very least to the degree he does). His ideas seem to drift more towards changing or even discarding the framework of traditional liberal democracy rather than working within it. I think Sanders is a trojan communist, but hey, we'll have to agree to disagree. -

"Social democracy is a political, social and economic philosophy that supports economic and social interventions to promote social justice within the framework of a liberal democratic polity and a capitalist-oriented economy."

'Night peoples

[Steel Inquisitor]

The revolution Sanders speaks of is getting more people involved in politics, the young, the apathetic, the working class that feels both parties have let them down. It does not involve overthrowing the government, as great as that would be.

His wealth distribution is not dissimilar to FDR's.

It seems you don't know what a social democrat is. They actually suck, just not as much as liberals.

All the while making them Sanders supporters, not loyal Democrats.

Without FDR's gift for bending the government to his will.

Sanders thinks he can pressure a GOP lead congress strictly with protests were he president. This is imminently naive.

[JCAll]

Guys, Celgress is trolling us. Anyone who can use "bait" properly knows what they're doing. Let's not go for it anymore.
EDIT: That may have been a bit abrasive of me. I do think they're just having fun with everyone though.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

All the while making them Sanders supporters, not loyal Democrats.

No.

They are not Sanders supporters, or loyal Democrats. They are not devoted to a single person, or a political party.

That's the importance of Sanders running. There's a political movement building around him, but it isn't about him, so much as it is using him as a springboard. It's a movement to hold the powerful accountable, no matter who they are. It's about the people making the politicians serve the will of the people, instead of just voting them into office and hoping they do the right thing.

Those of us on the left are far more critical of Sanders than people who are firmly within the Democrat's camp. Were he to become President, we'll call him a war criminal when he uses drone strikes, just as we did with prior Presidents. If he tries to do regime change, we'll lash out.

We just tend to think stuff like that is more important than say, him not releasing his medical records.

[numberthirty]

All the while making them Sanders supporters, not loyal Democrats.

Without FDR's gift for bending the government to his will.

Sanders thinks he can pressure a GOP lead congress strictly with protests were he president. This is imminently naive.

Politely...

Let's say I really think that it is way past time the the US had a foreign policy where Israel has to be far more accountable for itself.

Who is the Democrat that I support if I feel that way?

I'm not supporting Sanders because I believe he is the perfect politician. It is because I know good and well that there is no way that the Democrats running will do anything like the above.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

Michelle Alexander, who is a liberal and not an extremist in any way, said in 2016 that while she was reluctant to endorse a candidate, she did endorse the political revolution that was coming out of Bernie Sanders running.

[Malvolio]

Trump doesn't get satire, does he?

He only gets it when it's the obvious kind of satire that Alec Baldwin does on SNL. That's why he's never attacked Anthony Atamanuik. AA's Trump impression was too subtle for Trump to understand that he was being ridiculed.

[worstblogever]

On this date in 2015, "Crazy/Stupid Republican of the Day" ran a profile of Dave Daubenmire, a former candidate for U.S. Congress in 2010 for Ohio’s 18th Congressional District who’s also a rabidly homophobic former high school football coach who was fired after repeatedly coercing players to participate in prayers and lost a lawsuit filed by the ACLU by several students and their families back in 2004. Daubenmire falsely claims he won that lawsuit as one of many instances where he bears false witness, despite of the fact that his self-righteousness motivated him to found “Pass the Salt” Ministries. Among the many, many patently deranged things Daubenmire has said through the years are that he wasn’t content to run for office, but wanted to “lead a revolution against those who oppose his ideals”, claiming that the hunt for the Tsarnaev brothers in the wake of the Boston Marathon bombing was the government “doing a dry run to see how martial law would work”, that Chemtrails are a thing and are chemical weapons sprayed on the populace to cause cancer and autism, and that President Obama was “either mentally ill or demonically possessed” and that all Democrats are “Children of Lucifer”. While you probably find all those statements enough to merit him certifiably insane, again, this guy’s a grade A bigot towards the LGBT community, having said that LGBT adults are “better off dead” and “homosexuals are gobbling up our kids”, declared “the most dangerous lifestyle in America today is homosexual behavior”, that Hillary Clinton “screams lesbian”, longs for the good old days “when being gay was a mental illness”, and has whined about how he’s tired of being “sodomized by the left”, and that gays have “stolen his manhood”. The less said about the bottomless pit of intolerance that is Dave Daubenmire, the better.

In both 2016, and in 2017, “Crazy/Stupid Republican of the Day” published profiles of Rick Morris, a three-term member of the Virginia House of Delegates who was a big supporter of the anti-abortion fanaticism of former Gov. Bob McDonnell and former Attorney General Ken Cuccinelli, such as Virginia’s mandatory ultrasound bill, but also a Personhood bill that would have claimed life starts at conception. He cares so much about the human right to life that he also voted for legislation return the electric chair to a list of acceptable means to execute prisoners. He's also voted against not just gay marriage, but even adoptions by LGBT couples. In 2017 because Morris took to the floor of the Virgina State Legislature to compare abortion to slavery... and it seems that Rick Morris was arrested in September of 2016 on 11 separate charges of domestic abuse and child abuse, after he decided to go medieval on his 11 year old stepson with a belt, and trying to force him to stand in a corner for... oh, three days at a clip. Morris refused to resign, but at least had the sense to not run for re-election in the 2017 Virginia elections.

On this date in 2018, “Crazy/Stupid Republican of the Day” profiled the former U.S. House Representative from Pennsylvania’s 7th Congressional District, Patrick Meehan, who you might not have realized was a Congressman since he was elected in the Tea Party Wave of 2010, and you might not have heard about how his district as gerrymandered by Republicans to guarantee his re-election several times. People may not have paid much mind to his voting record, which was an His voting record was an embarrassment of conservative ideology, but again, other than votes against women’s issues and an obsession with repealing the Affordable Care Act, there was nothing in there to make Meehan stand out from his Tea Party brethren. That held, at least, until reports surfaced that Meehan harassed a woman about four decades his junior because he thought she was his “soul mate”, and then after she won her case against him, he used taxpayer money to settle the case and tried to keep the whole thing hushed up. Meehan actually tried blaming his predatory behavior on the stress he was enduring because the Affordable Care Act continued to exist (really, he said that). Alas, he is now out of office in disgrace.


It was on this date one year ago that “Crazy/Stupid Republican of the Day” first profiled Keith Wheeler, a member of the Illinois House of Representatives first elected in 2014 and is now serving in his third term in office. Wheeler first got on our radar back in 2016, when he co-sponsored legislation in Illinois that was designed to throw single mothers and their children off of government assistance if the child’s birth certificate did not have a father listed, which opponents pounced on for its misogyny at targeting single mothers, but also noting that there are a lot of reasons a mother might personally not want a biological father listed on a birth certificate, like if they were the victim of rape, incest, or sexual assault. When confronted over his sexist bill, Wheeler responded to the media by running and hiding, refusing any comment on why he felt his “small government” solution was necessary.

When we take a wider look at Wheeler’s voting record, we’re far from reassured that he has the people’s best interests at heart, what with in the past five years voting against a ban on gay conversion therapy on minors, voting against the ratification of the Equal Rights Amendment, voting to allow that insurance companies could refuse to cover birth control on their insurance plans, and in the days following the Las Vegas Massacre, voting against an attempt to ban the possession of bump stocks in the state.

Keith Wheeler has rapidly risen to be the Assistant GOP House Floor Leader in Illinois, but we’re wondering if voters in 2020 will still support someone who’s voting against minimum wage increases during the greatest period of income inequality our country has seen in a century. We’d like to think not.

[WestPhillyPunisher]

5 Things To Watch For In The New Hampshire Primary

It’s a heated battle to make the top three spots on Tuesday.

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Trump’s $4.8 Trillion Budget Proposal Revisits Rejected Cuts

The budget plan recycles deep, previously rejected cuts to domestic programs like food stamps, Medicaid and housing. Hardly a surprise. I mean, those tax cuts to billionaires aren't going to pay for themselves. Remember, boys and girls, when it comes to Trump and the GOP, the cruelty IS the point!

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Trump’s First 3 Years Created 1.5 Million Fewer Jobs Than Obama’s Last 3

New Labor Department statistics show that despite Trump’s repeated boasts, job creation was a lot higher during Barack Obama’s final years. I'm sure Trump will huff and puff and call that report fake news.

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U.N. Report Finds North Korea Enhanced Nuclear Programs In 2019, Breaching Sanctions

The country also illicitly imported refined petroleum and exported some $370 million worth of coal, according to the report. I guess Trump's bromance with Rocketman is off.

**********

Over 100 U.S. Troops Now Diagnosed With Traumatic Brain Injuries From Iran Attack

President Trump initially said no Americans were hurt in the retaliatory strikes. More lies from Trump? I'm shocked, shocked I tell you!

[Steel Inquisitor]

No.

They are not Sanders supporters, or loyal Democrats. They are not devoted to a single person, or a political party.

That's the importance of Sanders running. There's a political movement building around him, but it isn't about him, so much as it is using him as a springboard. It's a movement to hold the powerful accountable, no matter who they are. It's about the people making the politicians serve the will of the people, instead of just voting them into office and hoping they do the right thing.

No, they're not. They get behind Sanders like he's a political strong man just like the right does since he's their own voice they think they have. They say they do this reluctantly but their actions tells us otherwise. Sanders had made sure that their "loyalty" stays with him, so when he's gone and the part continues they'll go back to the shadows.

A movement which is, iconically, built all around Sanders since they haven't solidified properly to accept an inheritor when he's departed. Those are nice words but they fail to materialise in reality when it counts.

Those of us on the left are far more critical of Sanders than people who are firmly within the Democrat's camp. Were he to become President, we'll call him a war criminal when he uses drone strikes, just as we did with prior Presidents. If he tries to do regime change, we'll lash out.

We just tend to think stuff like that is more important than say, him not releasing his medical records.

People mainly scrutinising Sanders here aren't leftists, I certainly haven't seen you do any such thing. I've seen that happen to a modern Democratic president before, it didn't help Obama shift left or get his leftward agenda fulfilled, instead it forced him to compromise further and further as the Republicans took over congress. This is a weakness in Bernie's coalition, they're more likely to turn on each other than keep a solid front which is when the Democrats, and the Republicans, take advantage and make Sanders weaker politically than he would originally be. He'd be the next Jimmy Carter.

Except you don't think an 80 year old man with a history of heart attacks is anything to worry about. You're certainly not bringing that up in discussions as a concern about Sanders. What if he picks someone like Tulsi as his VP?

Politely...

Let's say I really think that it is way past time the the US had a foreign policy where Israel has to be far more accountable for itself.

Who is the Democrat that I support if I feel that way?

I'm not supporting Sanders because I believe he is the perfect politician. It is because I know good and well that there is no way that the Democrats running will do anything like the above.

I don't think you're really a Democrat, or on the left, so your opinion on Sanders isn't that much of a concern to me.

[numberthirty]

...

I don't think you're really a Democrat, or on the left, so your opinion on Sanders isn't that much of a concern to me.

Again, politely...

It's not "Opinion..."

There is one person running for The Democratic Party nomination that is even bringing that up. It is Sanders.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

No, they're not. They get behind Sanders like he's a political strong man just like the right does since he's their own voice they think they have. They say they do this reluctantly but their actions tells us otherwise. Sanders had made sure that their "loyalty" stays with him, so when he's gone and the part continues they'll go back to the shadows.

That's demonstrably false.

When Sanders endorsed Hillary Clinton, many of those that were dedicated to the movement called him a sell out and refused to fall in line and stop criticizing Hillary. They didn't stay quiet and do as they were told.

There are Democrats that still blame Bernie's supporters for Trump getting elected.

Many of these people are to the left of Sanders. The loyalty they have for him is gone the moment he betrays the movement.

A movement which is, iconically, built all around Sanders since they haven't solidified properly to accept an inheritor when he's departed. Those are nice words but they fail to materialise in reality when it counts.

There doesn't need to be an inheritor or a successor in the way you're thinking of, that's the point.

To quote Chomsky.

Even more threatening than Sanders’s proposals to carry forward New Deal-style policies, I think, is his inspiring a popular movement that is steadily engaged in political action and direct activism to change the social order — a movement of people, mostly young, who have not internalized the norms of liberal democracy: that the public are “ignorant and meddlesome outsiders” who are to be “spectators, not participants in action,” entitled to push a lever every four years but are then to return to their TV sets and video games while the “responsible men” look after serious matters.

This is a fundamental principle of democracy as expounded by prominent and influential liberal 20th–century American intellectuals, who took cognizance of “the stupidity of the average man” and recognized that we should not be deluded by “democratic dogmatisms about men being the best judges of their own interests.” They are not; we are — the “responsible men,” the “intelligent minority.” The “bewildered herd” must therefore be “put in their place” by “necessary illusions” and “emotionally potent simplifications.” These are among the pronouncements of the most influential 20th–century public intellectual, Walter Lippmann, in his “progressive essays on democracy”; Harold Lasswell, one of the founders of modern political science; and Reinhold Niebuhr, the admired “theologian of the (liberal) establishment.” All highly respected Wilson-FDR-Kennedy liberals.

Inspiring a popular movement that violates these norms is a serious attack on democracy, so conceived, an intolerable assault against good order.

People are becoming politically active because of Sanders, but not just for him.

People mainly scrutinising Sanders here aren't leftists, I certainly haven't seen you do any such thing.

I'm not surprised.

You've shown a habit of missing things in my post. Like, last when I said I don't think anyone could beat Trump in 2020 and somehow you took that me saying Bernie Sanders would effortlessly beat Trump in 2020.

But, I've criticized Bernie before. I've outright said that he sucks.

I just think the stuff that people here focus on is far less important.

I've seen that happen to a modern Democratic president before, it didn't help Obama shift left or get his leftward agenda fulfilled, instead it forced him to compromise further and further as the Republicans took over congress. This is a weakness in Bernie's coalition, they're more likely to turn on each other than keep a solid front which is when the Democrats, and the Republicans, take advantage and make Sanders weaker politically than he would originally be. He'd be the next Jimmy Carter.

The other Presidents you mentioned didn't have what Bernie has going for him. A multiracial working class movement.

What Bernie's proposing, he can't get done in the current system. The people are going to have to transform the system to make stuff like Medicare For All possible.

I'm not talking about a violent revolution or anything, but expect stuff like general strikes and hounding politicians that stand in the way, Democrats and Republicans.

That's the point of Bernie's campaign, empowering people so that they can make radical political change.

It's the opposite of seeing him as some sort of savior figure. We know that we have to continue to be active in order to get what we want, because Bernie isn't just going to give it to us.

That's the funny thing. The people supporting Bernie Sanders are accused of seeing him as some sort of messianic figure, but they are the ones who are going to keep going even after he's elected.

Their political activity doesn't begin and end with voting.

Except you don't think an 80 year old man with a history of heart attacks is anything to worry about. You're certainly not bringing that up in discussions as a concern about Sanders.

Seventy-eight, but I don't think it's an issue worth giving more weight than his record, and what we have to look out for while he's President. Stuff like his opposition to BDS, his intention to continue using drone strikes, and the shitty US foreign policy he's supported are things I'm more concerned about.

The worst case with Bernie's health is if something happens before the election. I already think Trump is going to win, but that would guarantee it.

Him dying while in office or having to step down aren't as important, because as I've said, Bernie's main importance is the movement that's growing around him.

What if he picks someone like Tulsi as his VP?

That's highly improbable.

If it were to happen, Sanders would lose pretty much all credibility.

The worst case scenario with Tulsi is that he gives her a position where she can't do any damage but that too is really unlikely.