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  1. #841
    Ultimate Member Tendrin's Avatar
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    There's no nuance or complexity in inviting a notorious transphobe on your show and not engaging in pushback and agreeing with them on their transphobia.

  2. #842
    Ultimate Member Malvolio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by InformationGeek View Post
    ...so what's your take on him being an anti-vaxxer then?
    I disagree with on that point. Fortunately, Maher does not have children and has made clear that he probably never will.

  3. #843
    Ultimate Member Malvolio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jetengine View Post
    Ah so your cool with bigots. Neat.
    No, but thanks for simplifying my complex argument.

  4. #844
    Ultimate Member Malvolio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Theleviathan View Post
    I appreciate your ability to think complexly in a complex world. Dont let anyone shame you into doing otherwise.
    Thank you. I pride myself on commenting on articles only after I've read them all the way through, rather than simply commenting on the headline, as some people do.

  5. #845
    Invincible Member numberthirty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malvolio View Post
    I enjoy Bill Maher. No I don't always agree with him, but I usually see where his views come from. Yes, he hates militant Muslims, but no more than he hates fundamentalist Christians. When he sees something he considers absurd, he comments on it as such, regardless of whether or not that absurdity centers on an oppressed group of people. And yes, he has hateful people like Milo Y. and Ann Coulter on his show. I don't want to watch shows where the host only has on people he agrees with most of the time.

    And finally, even when I disagree with Maher so much on an issue that I'm disappointed in him, I don't go, "Oh I can't watch him any more!" and curl up in a cocoon. I straighten up and accept the fact that there will never be any television host that I agree with 100% of the time. If that makes me a "cool liberal," then go ahead and brand me with your ridiculous label. I, on the other hand, have no time for such foolishness.
    While I guess I can see not refusing to take part in discussion with folks you are not on the same page with politically, look at the people you mentioned.

    They are not folks with a different political point of view.

    They are tune up artists.

    It's hard to make excuses for that stuff based on including different points of view.

  6. #846
    Ultimate Member Gray Lensman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malvolio View Post
    Thank you. I pride myself on commenting on articles only after I've read them all the way through, rather than simply commenting on the headline, as some people do.
    That's especially important in today's climate of clickbait headlines, even in front of well reasoned articles.
    Dark does not mean deep.

  7. #847
    Ultimate Member Malvolio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rosa Luxemburg View Post
    Such value. Such complexity.

    We should not expect less from the guy that has said "the left is scarier and crazier than Trump", that the Vietnam War was good, actually, and said in a 1999 interview that he'd be Republican if they weren't so openly bigoted.
    Really? You're going to cherry pick from 1999? You know, from back when Donald Trump was a Democrat.

  8. #848
    Ultimate Member Malvolio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by numberthirty View Post
    While I guess I can see not refusing to take part in discussion with folks you are not on the same page with politically, look at the people you mentioned.

    They are not folks with a different political point of view.

    They are tune up artists.

    It's hard to make excuses for that stuff based on including different points of view.
    Bill Maher also wants his show to be entertaining. He's not going to have on someone he disagrees with if their argument is boring. He also won't have on someone he agrees with, whom he finds boring. Whatever else you may say about Milo Y. (I won't even attempt to spell his last name) or Ann Coulter, they do raise the heat in the room, and like it or not, that can be entertaining.

  9. #849
    Ultimate Member Tendrin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malvolio View Post
    Bill Maher also wants his show to be entertaining. He's not going to have on someone he disagrees with if their argument is boring. He also won't have on someone he agrees with, whom he finds boring. Whatever else you may say about Milo Y. (I won't even attempt to spell his last name) or Ann Coulter, they do raise the heat in the room, and like it or not, that can be entertaining.
    'Entertainment' over the public good is how we got here. It's irresponsible to give platforms to virulent racists and transphobes for the sake of your own ratings. Have we learned nothing?

    If you can't be entertaining without people like that, well, you got a problem.

  10. #850
    Invincible Member numberthirty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malvolio View Post
    Bill Maher also wants his show to be entertaining. He's not going to have on someone he disagrees with if their argument is boring. He also won't have on someone he agrees with, whom he finds boring. Whatever else you may say about Milo Y. (I won't even attempt to spell his last name) or Ann Coulter, they do raise the heat in the room, and like it or not, that can be entertaining.
    One guy's take...

    The jury is out on "Entertaining..."(and it doesn't look good for said assertion).

    They are each about like folks you see calling Coulter a "Horse Face" or taking shots at HRC because she wears pant suits regularly.

    That garbage most likely is not "Entertaining..." Never mind having any relevant place in a political discussion.

  11. #851
    Ultimate Member Malvolio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tendrin View Post
    'Entertainment' over the public good is how we got here. It's irresponsible to give platforms to virulent racists and transphobes for the sake of your own ratings. Have we learned nothing?

    If you can't be entertaining without people like that, well, you got a problem.
    I never said that he needs those people to be entertaining. But if you have the de facto censorship of everyone telling people like Milo Y. or Ann Coulter that they won't be allowed to have a forum, how long before far left provocateurs are treated the same way? I know that slippery slope arguments often have no grounding, but I know I wouldn't want to live in a country where the threat of boycotts and the like gradually narrows the spectrum of opinion until all we're left with is the most mealy-mouthed of CNN commentators.

  12. #852
    Ultimate Member Tendrin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malvolio View Post
    I never said that he needs those people to be entertaining. But if you have the de facto censorship of everyone telling people like Milo Y. or Ann Coulter that they won't be allowed to have a forum, how long before far left provocateurs are treated the same way? I know that slippery slope arguments often have no grounding, but I know I wouldn't want to live in a country where the threat of boycotts and the like gradually narrows the spectrum of opinion until all we're left with is the most mealy-mouthed of CNN commentators.
    I don't know. Maybe when a specific member of the far left espouses violent racism and transphobia and singles out individual transwomen get them harassed and threatened and gets invited on a tv show?

    Fortunately, we are a long way from those concerns becoming reality when guys like Milo were still getting prime TV bookings in light of having actually done those things. As the article I cited pointed out: Maher had nothing to do with his downfall and spoke approvingly of him and then tried to take credit after the fact for his downfall.

    Dude is scum. There's nothing wrong with having an entertaining show of varied viewpoints and ideas and discussion. Maher isn't it.
    Last edited by Tendrin; 11-02-2019 at 06:57 PM.

  13. #853
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malvolio View Post
    Really? You're going to cherry pick from 1999? You know, from back when Donald Trump was a Democrat.
    When in a recent interview Maher says the left is more dangerous than Trump, I have no reason to believe he doesn't still identify with Republican party of the past.

  14. #854
    Invincible Member numberthirty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malvolio View Post
    I never said that he needs those people to be entertaining. But if you have the de facto censorship of everyone telling people like Milo Y. or Ann Coulter that they won't be allowed to have a forum, how long before far left provocateurs are treated the same way? I know that slippery slope arguments often have no grounding, but I know I wouldn't want to live in a country where the threat of boycotts and the like gradually narrows the spectrum of opinion until all we're left with is the most mealy-mouthed of CNN commentators.
    If the guy's show ever once came down to anything of legitimate political insight, it might be worth it.

    Think back to when Ann Coulter said Trump would wind up President, and Joy Reid was on the panel.

    Was there any serious discussion of if it could happen directed at Reid, or was it "Let's make fun of this goofy blonde?"

    If this show just wants to be "Jerry Springer", so be it. That said, it ought to be treated like it is that sort of show.

  15. #855
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tendrin View Post
    I don't know. Maybe when a specific member of the far left espouses violent racism and transphobia and singles out individual transwomen get them harassed and threatened and gets invited on a tv show?

    Fortunately, we are a long way from those concerns becoming reality when guys like Milo were still getting prime TV bookings in light of having actually done those things.
    It also implies that far left speakers get the same kind of attention that right wing ghouls do, when it isn't even close.

    And oh yeah, Milo and Ann aren't "provocateurs", they are hateful bigots.

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