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  1. #9061
    Incredible Member Superbat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Inquisitor View Post
    I've posted links about the Bros doing that in this very thread, only to be dismissed by Sanders supporters. Sexism has been with something the Bros have done since day one and attacked Warren with recently for daring to "betray" Sanders.
    That has nothing to do with that happened 5 days ago in another thread.

    BTW, someone can't say they are against Bernie because of harassment but root for Bloomberg over him when Bloomberg has been accused of sexual harassment by dozens of women.
    Last edited by Superbat; 02-20-2020 at 05:24 PM.
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  2. #9062
    Incredible Member Superbat's Avatar
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    We only talk about online harassment when Bernie supporters do it.

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  3. #9063
    Ultimate Member Mister Mets's Avatar
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    Freaking had
    Quote Originally Posted by Superbat View Post
    Hawks say Sanders will be weak on Russia. But Putin should fear a President Bernie

    https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...-putin-kremlin

    Whereas recent US foreign policy has emboldened the Kremlin, Sanders actually understands how to undermine it

    He may not be running, but Vladimir Putin is already a formidable presence in the 2020 US presidential campaign. From concerns about Russian aggression abroad to anxieties about electoral interference at home, Putin has become a question to which all presidential candidates are expected to have a strongly worded answer – particularly in the wake of Donald Trump’s failed impeachment, in which the Democratic party sought to make the case that “all roads lead to Putin”.

    The conventional wisdom in US foreign policy is that military competition is necessary to contain Putin and circumscribe the Russian sphere of influence. “The United States aids Ukraine and her people so that they can fight Russia over there, and we don’t have to fight Russia over here,” said the Republican adviser Tim Morrison during the impeachment hearings – a quote then repeated by Adam Schiff, chairman of the House intelligence committee, in his opening argument.

    It is in this context that the rise of Bernie Sanders is raising fears inside the Democratic party establishment. Sanders has long been a leading advocate of military restraint, and he is campaigning on a platform of “responsible foreign policy” that promises to end America’s “endless war”. Despite speech after speech in which the senator decries Putin’s criminal authoritarianism, a narrative is now developing that his presidency would amount to a great gift to the Kremlin. “If I’m Russian, I go with Sanders this time around,” tweeted the former Goldman Sachs CEO Lloyd Blankfein.

    But most advocates of military competition fundamentally misunderstand the nature of Kremlin power – a misunderstanding that has led the US to fail, time and again, in its attempt to contain Putin. The promise of Sanders’ foreign policy platform is precisely that it turns the conventional wisdom on its head, showing how the US government can use domestic reform as a strategy to undermine Putin’s authoritarian aggression abroad.

    To make sense of this strategy, it is necessary to see the three pillars on which Putin’s regime rests. The first of these pillars is hydrocarbons: the vast reserves of oil and gas in Russia that deliver large revenues and deep political loyalties both within Russia and across Europe. Russian oil and gas output is currently at a record high 11.25m barrels per day, generating $44.4bn each year from countries such as Germany that have become heavily reliant on Russian gas exports.

    The second pillar of Putin’s power is corruption. Russia is today a kleptocracy, a political system that runs on kickbacks, bribes and pocketed public money for loyal oligarchs. Their dark money, of course, does not stay in Russia. Instead, it circulates through the vast international system of murky finance – into Deutsche Bank and Danske Bank, into London real estate and US shell companies – buying allegiance to the regime along the way.

    And the third pillar is propaganda: Putin and his allies actively seek to stir up conflict abroad in order to strengthen nationalist loyalties at home. From the very beginning of his tenure, Putin has fomented violence and aggression against Russia’s “enemies” – be they Chechen, Ukrainian or American – as a strategy to boost his own popularity.

    Far from attacking these pillars of Kremlin power, recent US foreign policy has served to strengthen them. The Barack Obama administration, for example, aggressively pursued a fossil fuels arms race against Russia, further entrenching the global addiction to hydrocarbons. Meanwhile, Obama presided over a flood of Russian oligarchs’ cash into the US, even as his secretary of state, Hillary Cinton, drew comparisons between Putin and Hitler.

    Sanders, by contrast, seeks to dismantle each of the three pillars at their base. Rather than deepening US dependence on oil and gas, he is promoting a Green New Deal with major provisions to support a green transition beyond US borders. By driving decarbonisation among US allies in Europe and around the world, Sanders promises to reduce Putin’s geopolitical leverage.

    Rather than ignoring the illicit financial system, Sanders is advocating a programme of “corporate accountability” to shut down tax havens, eliminate anonymous shell companies and strictly regulate the Wall Street banks that have facilitated the flow of kleptocrats’ cash all around the world.

    Finally, Sanders avoids the lazy cold war rhetoric about “the Russians” that helps boost Putin’s legitimacy back at home. Instead, his approach is infrastructural, attacking the nodes of the illicit finance network rather than the individual “bad actors” operating within it.

    In short, Sanders is shifting away from the antiquated paradigm of “foreign policy” – with its clear demarcations of home and abroad and its appeals to a unified national interest – and towards “foreign politics”. He is targeting the global architecture of kleptocracy in which many US firms and passport holders are complicit, and building ties with social movements around the world that can serve as allies in the fight against state corruption.

    Progressives cannot afford to be naive in their approach to Putin. His efforts to consolidate a sphere of influence are unlikely to abate, regardless of the 2020 election outcome. But for all the Democratic party’s legitimate fears about Russian aggression, it cannot retreat to an outdated paradigm that approaches Russia as a question of military security alone.

    It should come as no surprise, therefore, that those who understand Putin’s kleptocratic system – such the leader of the Russian opposition, Alexei Navalny – are now rooting for Sanders. It is only by undermining that system, not competing with it, that the US can truly weaken Putin’s authoritarian grip, and make way for a new democratic movement to flourish in Russia.
    Fracking has helped reduce the power of Russian oil. Do even the most optimistic supporters of the Green New Deal think it would have an immediate effect on Russia's economy?
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  4. #9064
    Ultimate Member Gray Lensman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Mets View Post
    Freaking had
    Fracking has helped reduce the power of Russian oil. Do even the most optimistic supporters of the Green New Deal think it would have an immediate effect on Russia's economy?
    I think it might give them a short term boost if we reduce output - but in the long term proliferation of non-fossil fuel power will hurt them over the course of time. To say nothing of the positive effects of reducing emissions and (if done well) shoving enough of those green jobs into coal country to counteract the demise of what was once the primary industry of the region.
    "Theory: The Phoenix doesn't corrupt the characters, it corrupts the authors." Gambit, King of Thieves

  5. #9065
    CBR's Good Fairy Kieran_Frost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Inquisitor View Post
    Stop dismissing abuse, sexism and death threats as "annoying."

    Everyone is allowed to vote for who they want to in the primaries, it's not voting for Sanders in the general that should concern you.
    THIS! A man who seems to inspire so much active negativity and hate on-line isn’t an issue to ignore. His fans are doing more damage than good... then again Trump got in with his fans doing the same thing. So who knows? Maybe hate will win again in 2020? It would be nice if America could go back to having a leader who wasn’t shrouded in nastiness. Le sigh.
    "We are Shakespeare. We are Michelangelo. We are Tchaikovsky. We are Turing. We are Mercury. We are Wilde. We are Lincoln, Lorca, Leonardo da Vinci. We are Alexander the Great. We are Fredrick the Great. We are Rustin. We are Addams. We are Marsha! Marsha Marsha Marsha! We so generous, we DeGeneres. We are Ziggy Stardust hooked to the silver screen. Controversially we are Malcolm X. We are Plato. We are Aristotle. We are RuPaul, god dammit! And yes, we are Woolf."

  6. #9066
    Incredible Member Superbat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kieran_Frost View Post
    THIS! A man who seems to inspire so much active negativity and hate on-line isn’t an issue to ignore. His fans are doing more damage than good... then again Trump got in with his fans doing the same thing. So who knows? Maybe hate will win again in 2020? It would be nice if America could go back to having a leader who wasn’t shrouded in nastiness. Le sigh.
    Fun fact: Bernie has the fewest supporters that approve of what Trump has done as president.

    Why are the other candidates attracting more supporters that approve of the job Trump is doing? That's the most toxic someone can be.
    Last edited by Superbat; 02-20-2020 at 06:01 PM.
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  7. #9067
    CBR's Good Fairy Kieran_Frost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Inquisitor View Post
    I've posted links about the Bros doing that in this very thread, only to be dismissed by Sanders supporters. Sexism has been with something the Bros have done since day one and attacked Warren with recently for daring to "betray" Sanders.
    Sadly, I don’t think all the reports in the world would drain the koolaid. I also posted an article from the Advocate, written by a trans woman who said the level of online hate, harassment and abuse she’s received from Corbyn Mark II’s Bros is something to not turn a blind eye to.

    It’s a different kind of hate, one noticeably different than other Democratic candidates, and people should be a little worried. How is “the new beacon of fairness” inspiring so much unkindness? That’s concerning. It’s concerning to think how bad it could get, and it’s worrying because IF he got the nomination, and IF he won... would it stop? Based on Trump supporters (who they are most similar to), history would indicate no.
    Last edited by Kieran_Frost; 02-20-2020 at 05:57 PM.
    "We are Shakespeare. We are Michelangelo. We are Tchaikovsky. We are Turing. We are Mercury. We are Wilde. We are Lincoln, Lorca, Leonardo da Vinci. We are Alexander the Great. We are Fredrick the Great. We are Rustin. We are Addams. We are Marsha! Marsha Marsha Marsha! We so generous, we DeGeneres. We are Ziggy Stardust hooked to the silver screen. Controversially we are Malcolm X. We are Plato. We are Aristotle. We are RuPaul, god dammit! And yes, we are Woolf."

  8. #9068
    Ultimate Member Gray Lensman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superbat View Post
    We only talk about online harassment when Bernie supporters do it.

    This is the first I have heard about any Warren supporters being this way, but that is only one. The Pete Brigade is more worrisome for the same reason you hear about Bernie Bros - it's a matter of them being a sizable group. I'm sure even the most laid back politician has at least one toxic fan, but when you start seeing thousands you need to ask why.

    One last note about the debate, I think Biden managed to earn at least a partial win by virtue of everyone else in his lane stumbling. Pete and Klobuchar going after each other in the way they did was a bad look (one pundit even suggested Presisdent Klobuchar might bomb South Bend) where personal animosity took over rather than differences in policy or presentation. And Bloomberg had better hope he has enough money to purchase amnesia for the Super Tuesday voters after his....I hesitate to call it a performance since it was so lackluster. The guy from The Room performed better.
    "Theory: The Phoenix doesn't corrupt the characters, it corrupts the authors." Gambit, King of Thieves

  9. #9069
    Incredible Member Superbat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kieran_Frost View Post
    Sadly, I don’t think all the reports in the world would drain the koolaid. I also posted an article from the Advocate, written by a trans woman who said the level of online hate, harassment and abuse she’s received from Corbyn Mark II’s Bros is something to not turn a blind eye to.

    It’s a different kind of hate, one noticeably different than other Democratic candidates, and people should be a little worried. How is “the new beacon of fairness” inspiring so much unkindness? That’s concerning. It’s concerning to think how bad it could get, and it’s worrying because IF he got the nomination, and IF he won... would it stop? Based on Trump supporters (who they are most similar to), history would indicate no.


    Quote Originally Posted by KNIGHT OF THE LAKE View Post
    Trump approval with each candidates supporters

    Klobuchar: 22%
    Buttigieg: 11%
    Bloomberg: 10%
    Biden: 10%
    Warren: 9%
    Sanders: 4%

    https://www.commondreams.org/news/20...kers-any-other

    Weird I thought all the Bernie Bros were down for throwing the election for Trump or something. Why is it always the centrist supporters that are cool with Republicans winning like all the Dems who voted McCain in 2008?
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  10. #9070
    Old school comic book fan WestPhillyPunisher's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tami View Post
    Russia Backs Trumpís Re-election, and He Fears Democrats Will Exploit Its Support



    LOL ... that is the only thing he cares about, is that the Democrats would use it against him.
    Well, shit! What did Donnie Dumbass expect? Russia interfered in the 2016 election on his behalf, now Putin is rooting for Trump to repeat, and thereís concerns about more shenanigans like four years ago. Stevie Wonder could see that coming.
    Avatar: Here's to the late, great Steve Dillon. Best. Punisher. Artist. EVER!

  11. #9071
    CBR's Good Fairy Kieran_Frost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gray Lensman View Post
    This is the first I have heard about any Warren supporters being this way, but that is only one. The Pete Brigade is more worrisome for the same reason you hear about Bernie Bros - it's a matter of them being a sizable group. I'm sure even the most laid back politician has at least one toxic fan, but when you start seeing thousands you need to ask why.

    One last note about the debate, I think Biden managed to earn at least a partial win by virtue of everyone else in his lane stumbling. Pete and Klobuchar going after each other in the way they did was a bad look (one pundit even suggested Presisdent Klobuchar might bomb South Bend) where personal animosity took over rather than differences in policy or presentation. And Bloomberg had better hope he has enough money to purchase amnesia for the Super Tuesday voters after his....I hesitate to call it a performance since it was so lackluster. The guy from The Room performed better.
    Going onto Meagan Day’s twitter and finding those tweets. She offers ZERO evidence to back up the claim her phone was “hacked”. Several posters ask for screenshot proof, saying it’s easy to get IF it happened. She also writes bio books about Corbyn Mark II. On top of that, looking at the comments on her posts... who gets nasty? That’s right, CMII supporters slagging off Pete. Which is actually quite ironic, considering the tweet was supposed to show other supporters are just as bad.

    Sooooooo... take that ‘evidence’ with a pinch of salt.
    "We are Shakespeare. We are Michelangelo. We are Tchaikovsky. We are Turing. We are Mercury. We are Wilde. We are Lincoln, Lorca, Leonardo da Vinci. We are Alexander the Great. We are Fredrick the Great. We are Rustin. We are Addams. We are Marsha! Marsha Marsha Marsha! We so generous, we DeGeneres. We are Ziggy Stardust hooked to the silver screen. Controversially we are Malcolm X. We are Plato. We are Aristotle. We are RuPaul, god dammit! And yes, we are Woolf."

  12. #9072
    Incredible Member Superbat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kieran_Frost View Post
    Going onto Meagan Day’s twitter and finding those tweets. She offers ZERO evidence to back up the claim her phone was “hacked”. Several posters ask for screenshot proof, saying it’s easy to get IF it happened. She also writes bio books about Corbyn Mark II. On top of that, looking at the comments on her posts... who gets nasty? That’s right, CMII supporters slagging off Pete. Which is actually quite ironic, considering the tweet was supposed to show other supporters are just as bad.

    Sooooooo... take that ‘evidence’ with a pinch of salt.
    Not believing a woman about harassment.

    That explains why you would root for a serial sexual harasser over Bernie.
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  13. #9073
    Ultimate Member Gray Lensman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superbat View Post
    Not believing a woman about harassment.

    That explains why you would root for a serial sexual harasser over Bernie.
    I don't think anyone in this thread is rooting for Bloomberg, the best support he has on here is people who will hold their nose and vote for him over Trump since one is marginally worse than the other.
    "Theory: The Phoenix doesn't corrupt the characters, it corrupts the authors." Gambit, King of Thieves

  14. #9074
    Incredible Member Superbat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gray Lensman View Post
    I don't think anyone in this thread is rooting for Bloomberg, the best support he has on here is people who will hold their nose and vote for him over Trump since one is marginally worse than the other.
    Kieran said he is rooting for every candidate to beat Bernie. That includes Bloomberg.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kieran_Frost View Post
    Five days ago I didn't really care about the Democratic nominations, now I'm rooting for anyone but Sanders
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  15. #9075
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superbat View Post
    That has nothing to do with that happened 5 days ago in another thread.

    BTW, someone can't say they are against Bernie because of harassment but root for Bloomberg over him when Bloomberg has been accused of sexual harassment by dozens of women.
    Nobody is "rooting" for Bloomberg in this thread, all the talk about Bloomberg is about voting for him in the general. I, myself, have called him a piece of shit more than once for those very reasons. You realise it's possible to not like either Sanders or Bloomberg, right? They're both awful when it comes to protecting women, Sanders being "too busy" to protect the women in his campaign from numerous Bloomberg's he employs doesn't change excuse his failures. It's a huge black eye for Sanders to atone for. I'm a Warren supporter, btw.

    Quote Originally Posted by Superbat View Post
    We only talk about online harassment when Bernie supporters do it.

    It's been discussed and condemned by us, too. The Bros do next level shit like make hit lists for DNC delegates and make death threats to Democratic officials, that's why they're a cut above the rest wth harassment. Link me when those supporters do that and I'll condemn them with you.
    Last edited by Steel Inquisitor; 02-20-2020 at 06:34 PM.

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