All purpose news and politics thread part v: The quickening

[Theleviathan]

I'm not equating it.

It means that it makes sense that someone who doesn't care when a woman says she's been harassed would support someone that has been accused of sexual harassing women. Because they both show a lack of concern for women.

They aren't the same thing and I never said they were the same thing.

You just equivocated again. You're deliberately playing on the fact that the term "harassment" has many meanings to try and put the two offenses on equal footing.

Nevermind that in the case of Bernie Bros, we have demonstrable proof it has occurred many, many times and in this one example you want to prop up, we don't have any evidence at all.

Never-Nevermind that all of us will agree that all groups of supporters have bad eggs that say awful things. The "Bernie Bro" issue is an issue because of it's pervasive frequency.

[Superbat]

You just equivocated again. You're deliberately playing on the fact that the term "harassment" has many meanings to try and put the two offenses on equal footing.

They are not on an equal footing.

I just explained that to you.

I'll make it even clearer. The harassment of Megan Day is not equal to the sexual harassment committed by Bloomberg. Happy now?

[Theleviathan]

They are not on an equal footing.

I just explained that to you.

I'll make it even clearer. The harassment of Megan Day is not equal to the sexual harassment committed by Bloomberg. Happy now?

Of course not, you deliberately avoided the real issue. Of course Bloomberg's actions are much worse. We agree. Now the part where you have to have some credibility:

What about the sexual harassment and threats of violence from Bernie supporters?

[Superbat]

What about the sexual harassment and threats of violence from Bernie supporters?

It's bad.

Sexual harassment and threats of violence are wrong. When have I ever said otherwise?

[Steel Inquisitor]

It's bad.

Sexual harassment and threats of violence are wrong. When have I ever said otherwise?

Congratulations, you're the first Sanders supporter to condemn the Bros tactics in this thread.

[Superbat]

Congratulations, you're the first Sanders supporter to condemn the Bros tactics in this thread.

And you haven't said anything about the harassment Ryan Knight documented.

Better get to it so that you can keep up your act.

[KNIGHT OF THE LAKE]

More than one person has defended them, and dismissed the Bernie Bros - when we have concrete links about harassment like death threats and hit lists. It gets brushed away like nothing.

Why are you judging this as though all Sanders voters are alright with harassment simply by liking him polls and voting? Something doesn't stop being toxic just because people like a movement. Its like saying Trumpism can't be racist or sexist because Trump got millions of votes in'16. It's baffling.



Get rid of them all, why would you want toxic people in your candidates campaign?



Dismissing harassment. That they are a minority proves nothing, condemn them don't normalise them. It's very strange that your argument is that everything ok because you think minorities and women who support Sanders are behind or unconcerned about harassment against their very own communities.



If you think it's just white people you haven't been paying attention. I linked to a Black women reporter being attacked, her account is getting ignored and she's not the only one.

Harassment is a Black and white topic, either you're for it or against. Many Bernie supporters have chosen the former with their posts in this thread.

Please, link me to these white people. I want context outside of the argument they should dismissed because they're white people.



That is moving the goal posts. That Sanders has supporters among those communities shouldn't be a shield for his own supporters attacking those very same communities. Harassment is never ok.

This is the flaw you have. You have links. Other people have supplied links and examples with other candidates past and present. You claim that it's more prevalent with Bernie supporters but then when pressed to provide some actual quantification of that you pivot and say people are being dismissive. And quite frankly when the people who continually bring this up are the most negative people in this thread in regards to Sanders and would rather gaslight and attack rather than actually back there hypothesis up with some numbers it's going to make people skeptical.

They've been condemned by Sanders and nobody here has said they agree or embraced them. The natural pivot you and others have made is that it's not enough. Quite frankly most of us don't believe you guys actually have a stance that would be enough and it's just some red meat. And I'll say you can say that other people are being dismissive but you and others have screamed false equivalency and goal post moving when thirty and others brought examples from other campaigns. So what's it say about you and others that you've all deflected rather than condemn it. I haven't heard any of those candidates condemn that and I haven't seen you and others on this board or the internet in general condemn it.

And yeah sorry the opinion of women and minorities on Sanders is kind of in and he's strong in both issues. So yeah when it's a bunch of white guys who never liked him, that refuse to quantify there assessment, that refuse to take the same ownership of their support base, that continual just say "he's not doing enough", yeah it just comes off as reaching for another argument and dismissing the feelings of the people you claim are at risk because you think you know better. Like no offense it's hypocritical of Buttigieg and his supporters who actually have shitty racial records that garner no minority support and are comprimised of predominately upper middle class and upper class white people to take it upon themselves to be the guardians here.

It just comes off as 'when all else fails I'll just externally blame his supporters.

Like I would challenge you right here, name a single candidate that has done more to address and take precautions on sexual harrassment in their campaign more? Name a single candidate who has openly spoke out about bad online behavior more? Name a single candidate who is being embraced more by the people you are claiming he's putting in danger? There isn't one.

[Theleviathan]

It's bad.

Sexual harassment and threats of violence are wrong. When have I ever said otherwise?

By equivocating you made it unclear.

[Superbat]

By equivocating you made it unclear.

I didn't. You decided to take what I said out of context.

I already explained this to you.

[Theleviathan]

I didn't. You decided to take what I said out of context.

I already explained this to you.

And I quoted your equivocation and reminded you of the definition. Maybe you didnt intend it, but you did it. To say nothing of the whataboutism.

[numberthirty]

...
It just comes off as 'when all else fails I'll just externally blame his supporters.

Like I would challenge you right here, name a single candidate that has done more to address and take precautions on sexual harrassment in their campaign more? Name a single candidate who has openly spoke out about bad online behavior more? Name a single candidate who is being embraced more by the people you are claiming he's putting in danger? There isn't one.

To Put It Simply...

When I see the folks who don't repeatedly call the following person out for the fact that she shielded a someone accused of harassment trying to call out Sanders for the way he has dealt with the same issue?

I, personally, have a hard time buying that it isn't simply an angle that they can use to attempt to attack Sanders. As it's the only instances where they repeatedly choose to do so, I can't really shake my doubts about what the issue of harassment actually means to them.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/26/u...t-in-2008.html

Hillary Clinton Chose to Shield a Top Adviser Accused of Harassment in 2008

[Superbat]

And I quoted your equivocation and reminded you of the definition. Maybe you didnt intend it, but you did it. To say nothing of the whataboutism.

No I didn't.

What you quoted was my response to someone that claims he's against Sanders because of online harassment but dismissed the harassment of someone by supporters of another candidate. This person also supporters Bloomberg over Bernie.

I never said they were the same. I said it makes sense that someone who doesn't believe a woman about being harassed would support a serial sexual harasser over Bernie because it shows a lack of concern for women. That does not imply they equally bad.

[Superbat]

To Put It Simply...

When I see the folks who don't repeatedly call the following person out for the fact that she shielded a someone accused of harassment trying to call out Sanders for the way he has dealt with the same issue?

I, personally, have a hard time buying that it isn't simply an angle that they can use to attempt to attack Sanders. As it's the only instances where they repeatedly choose to do so, I can't really shake my doubts about what the issue of harassment actually means to them.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/26/u...t-in-2008.html

They don't actually care.

The woman that tried to do damage control for Harvey Weinstein when all the allegations came out is part of Biden's campaign and last month he promoted her.

No one here talks about it because their complaints about harassment are made in bad faith. We already know this. When I posted tweets of a Warren surrogate racist things, every post about it was making excuses for her.

Hillary had her rapist husband campaigning for her and we still have to hear how good she was.

[Steel Inquisitor]

And you haven't said anything about the harassment Ryan Knight documented.

Better get to it so that you can keep up your act.

I condemn it. I await the same for the examples I bought up.

I'm not the one "acting" here.

This is the flaw you have. You have links.

Presenting evidence everyone avoids isn't a flaw, it's the opposite. But please, I am interested in your opinion on the links I made. Tell me what you thought of them.

Other people have supplied links and examples with other candidates past and present.

Which I condemned and commented on.

You claim that it's more prevalent with Bernie supporters but then when pressed to provide some actual quantification of that you pivot and say people are being dismissive. And quite frankly when the people who continually bring this up are the most negative people in this thread in regards to Sanders and would rather gaslight and attack rather than actually back there hypothesis up with some numbers it's going to make people skeptical.

I provided many examples which explained why the Bernie Bros are more dangerous then the other fanatics, while condemning their actions, as well. It's not like the Bernie supporters are doing it, are they? They prefer it near happened so they can insist on the narrative that the Bernie Bros are in the right. Hard to do that when evidence is accepted which puts a pin in that stance. We're not the ones gaslighting. They're not "skeptical," they know what they're doing.

They've been condemned by Sanders and nobody here has said they agree or embraced them. The natural pivot you and others have made is that it's not enough. Quite frankly most of us don't believe you guys actually have a stance that would be enough and it's just some red meat. And I'll say you can say that other people are being dismissive but you and others have screamed false equivalency and goal post moving when thirty and others brought examples from other campaigns. So what's it say about you and others that you've all deflected rather than condemn it. I haven't heard any of those candidates condemn that and I haven't seen you and others on this board or the internet in general condemn it.

They haven't condemned anything. They've been moving goal posts, whataboutism, defending and excusing harassment and the hypocrisy is though the roof. Yes, they have - subtly and overtly. The Bernie Bros has had a loud defense force here.

Are you a Republican? If you aren't don't bring up thirty - he's not your ally if you are genuinely on the left.

I accepted some of those examples as being true, made a post about it. Keeps getting ignored.

Myself and others aren't the ones doing the deflecting. Many in this thread don't dare bring up the words about my link to the death threats or the stalking of delegates in '16. Why is that? Or the Black reporter.

I've been condemning harassment for weeks here, why don't you ask this of your allies in this thread? It's telling how you're bothering me about it and not them.

Never would have thought links with death threats, stalking and harassment of a Black reporter wouldn't cut it as great evidence against the people who attack them.

And yeah sorry the opinion of women and minorities on Sanders is kind of in and he's strong in both issues.

You continue to ignore the victims who are women and minorities when they're not Sanders supporters. Of course, this really isn't about sex or race, this is about whether people support Sanders or not. That's the common denominator for the Bernie supporters defending the Bros.

So yeah when it's a bunch of white guys who never liked him, that refuse to quantify there assessment, that refuse to take the same ownership of their support base, that continual just say "he's not doing enough", yeah it just comes off as reaching for another argument and dismissing the feelings of the people you claim are at risk because you think you know better.

Moving the goal posts. Attacking the posters rather then acknowledging the meat of their argument with links to Bro harassment. You may not be overt but your agenda protecting the Bros is clear.

What about the feelings of the minorities and women who were victims of the Bros? Why aren't you concerned about what they have to say?

What does not liking Sanders have anything to do with it? I can not like Bernie and think harassment is bad.

Like no offense it's hypocritical of Buttigieg and his supporters who actually have shitty racial records that garner no minority support and are comprimised of predominately upper middle class and upper class white people to take it upon themselves to be the guardians here.

I'm a Warren supporter. Two, you're ignoring the accounts of minorities and women who have been harassed.

It just comes off as 'when all else fails I'll just externally blame his supporters.

I've blame his staff, too. Why wouldn't I not blame his supporters for doing things like sending death threats?

Like I would challenge you right here, name a single candidate that has done more to address and take precautions on sexual harrassment in their campaign more? Name a single candidate who has openly spoke out about bad online behavior more? Name a single candidate who is being embraced more by the people you are claiming he's putting in danger? There isn't one.

Again, moving the goal posts. Let's refresh your memory of how what had to occur before he finally caught on the looking after women in his campaign should be a priority, shall we?

Let's look at some of the descriptions the women staffers had to suffer through.

https://www.gq.com/story/sexism-prob...nders-campaign

In interviews, women told of makeshift living accommodations on the road, where they were asked to sleep in rooms along with male co-workers they didn’t know. Women who had access to salary records were taken aback to learn that some female staff members made thousands of dollars less than their male counterparts.

https://time.com/5490813/bernie-sand...al-harassment/

The letter, which was obtained by Politico, said that 2016 campaign staffers have been talking in recent weeks about the “untenable and dangerous dynamic that developed during our campaign.” The letter also references a “predatory culture” during Sanders’ unsuccessful 2016 Democratic primary run.

When the word "predatory" is used to describe a presidential campaign Sanders ran, he no longer has a moral high ground on Bloomberg when it comes to sexual harassment.

Here's Sanders comments on how he missed something which affects half the people in the country on a daily basis.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...legations-2016

Asked during an interview on CNN if he was aware of the claims at the time, Sanders replied that he was not.

“I was a little bit busy running around the country trying to make the case,” he said.

The no knowledge defense is better than being malicious but the victims suffer all the same. Apathy is no excuse when he had his own Bloomberg's running around under his nose and he did nothing. It was beneath him. This is unacceptable back then and we shouldn't forget how he failed those women under his protection.

To connect this back to the Bros this is what happened to Giulianna Di Lauro Velez.

https://theintercept.com/2019/01/10/...ssment-sexism/

At the same time, I was deeply disappointed by the feedback I received from some on the left. Both myself and other women who spoke on the record about our experiences on Sanders’s campaign received messages and tweets from Sanders supporters accusing us of lying and wanting to purposefully attack the Vermont senator. I was told to “enjoy my 15 minutes of fame” and was mocked while the sexual harassment I endured was normalized. Neoliberals and corporate media are unfair to Sanders and his supporters because our movement threatens their supremacy. But to dismiss our claims as mere bias is at best disingenuous and at worst cruel.

By blindly attacking anyone who raises valid concerns about sexism because it’s “not a good look” for the senator, they are actually making him look worse. Ironically, in their defense of Sanders’s campaign, these individuals are behaving as if acknowledging the presence of sexism and sexual harassment in his campaign is akin to calling Sanders a sexist — the implication that the establishment media seems keen to draw.

She's a woman of colour.

But continue telling me Sanders has no problems with stopping sexual harassment.

[Superbat]

I condemn it. I await the same for the examples I bought up.

I'm not the one "acting" here.

Have Warren or Buttigieg spoken out against these attacks made by their supporters?

Why did you have to wait until I posted it to say anything?

You claim to care about harassment but you only ever bring it up when it has something to do with Bernie.