All purpose news and politics thread part v: The quickening

[Theleviathan]

Look, I don't blame black voters at all, they have been bombarded in recent weeks with this idea that unless they fall in line and vote for Biden, then Trump will steamroll whoever else gets the nomination. Problem is, once the general comes around, Biden and the DNC will immediately pivot on every single issue relevant to the black community in order to chase white swing voters, and win or lose, black people will be left out in the cold just as they always have been in this country.



But see, why are these standards not being applied to Joe "Nothing Fundamentally Will Change" Biden? He hasn't promised to do a thing to improve race relations, and he won't.

You realize this post heavily implies black voters can't think for themselves as well as you right?

[Lord Falcon]

So were down to Warren, Uncle Joe, Grandpa Bernie, and Cousin Mike. So I take it were gonna have our first female president in the next 500 years.

If the nominee loses this time, Elizabeth Warren has a good shot at becoming President if she'll learn to stop digging in at the worst possible times politically.

Bernie supporters on Twitter are desperately trying to get Elizabeth Warren to endorse Bernie Sanders.

I hope she stays in the race, I have a feelings she's going to do well on her own. And even if she gets' out, there is no assurance that she'll endorse Sanders. She might endorse Biden.

Of all the nominees, Bernie supporters would have the most legitimate beef with Warren in my eyes. Trying to make Bernie out to be a sexist was ill thought out. Like with her claim to having Native American blood, it was a weird case of her digging in where the truth didn't really matter - the issue was a political loser and she didn't have the evidence to back her side up.

I kinda doubt Warren will endorse a guy who only puts the Democrat hat when he runs for office. She's ideologically very close to Bernie but she's much more willing to rework the establishment rather than tear everything down.

So let's see. Bernie Wins three states, and Democrats are like Fuck that guy.
Biden wins ONE state, and now everybody is dropping out at once, just before super Tuesday? LMAO.
The Democratic party is trying its hardest to not help working people.
We tried a Centrist in 2016 and we got Trump. We gotta make sure Bernie wins.
No, I don't trust Elizabeth Warren anymore. She dropped the "Bernie is my friend" routine a while ago, and now just viciously attacks him with not policy, but literal smears.

Sanders 2020

The Democrat party is trying its hardest to make sure a Democrat is at the top of the ticket, and someone they think has the best chance to win. This doesn't mean Bernie can't win. They're helping out Biden precisely because he was at the top of the pile when the dust settled for anyone short of frontrunner Sanders. Hillary losing had very little to do with her centrism and very much to do with having wielded political power in a spiteful, oppressive manner her entire career and changing political positions as they suited her. She and Obama were not that far apart from each other ideologically by 2008.

There isn't a doubt in my mind that the people who run the Democratic party would rather have four more years of Trump than have to deal with Bernie in the White House. At the end of the day, he represents a greater threat to their class interests, Trump just annoys their sensibilities but doesn't really hit them where it would really hurt.

If Bernie is going to hit the Democratic party where it would really hurt, then he has no business running as a Democrat.

It's pretty impressive, really, how quickly the party was able to rally around the flag. Buttigieg was the first and biggest to put his ego aside. Then Klobuchar followed. Then the endorsements from all the Democrats who dropped out earlier started pouring in. It was like an artillery barrage that would not stop.

Huffpost and Salon were all in on Sanders last time around -- that's exactly where I saw this kind of behavior in 2016 long before it infiltrated this forum.

It's also why I know better than to expect any better this time around.

Huffington Post were a reasonably reliable news organization ten years ago. Not anymore. Salon isn't as bad, but I definitely don't credit them as trustworthy truthtellers with something worth saying the way I sort of used to.

Beto is endorsing Biden as we speak -- Sanders can't even get support from the congressional members of the party he claims to represent.

To be fair, he shouldn't expect any. Sanders is not a Democrat.

[The Overlord]

I think this necessarily paints voters of color as unaware of these things already. They know.

Well will they come out in droves for Biden in the general election then?

[Theleviathan]

You think Trump will not bring up Biden's record to try to depress the African American vote? Treating Biden with kids gloves is foolish, because Trump will not show him any mercy in the general election.

Trump doesn't have the trust of black voters. He'd be a fool to try and attack Biden on that issue.

[Theleviathan]

Biden now within 2% in Texas.

[aja_christopher]

Well will they come out in droves for Biden in the general election then?

Moreso than for Sanders apparently, which is the main issue at hand.

[Celgress]

While I don’t see Bernie or his supporters as either “Marxists” or “communists”, I do agree that the lack of importance placed on sociocultural differences are part of what causes problems for many modern leftists. These things can’t, nor should they be, erased for simplicities sake. These issues are complicated and so too should be our prescriptions to address them.

Socialism comes from Marxist thought. It is rooted firmly in the concept of "dialectical materialism". The problem with this approach (as you've pointed out) is it boils everything down to redistribution of wealth and leaves no room for other grievances to be addressed. Adherents of this and related ideologies believe if only wealth was disturbed more evenly every other problem would magically go away including racism, sexism, religious discrimination, homophobia, exact. Such a dogmatic belief is naive at best harmful to true progress at worst.

[TheDarman]

Well will they come out in droves for Biden in the general election then?

They have showed up. They voted for Clinton in high numbers, only beat by Obama in 2008 and 2012, in spite of some bad statements that got played over and over again (“superpredators” anyone?). It needs to be the rest of us who follow suit and support the nominee with the same degree of dedication as black voters have for years. Too many of us were petty in 2016; we can’t be again.

[kidfresh512]

You think Trump will not bring up Biden's record to try to depress the African American vote? Treating Biden with kids gloves is foolish, because Trump will not show him any mercy in the general election.

Black people are speaking right now. And they don't give a fuck what Trump says. We want his ass GONE. He can set out all the "woke" merchandise he wants. The turnout and exit polling is showing you what black people think right now. You don't have to guess.

[The Overlord]

Do you think black voters don't already know Biden's record regardless of what Trump says?

Sanders is the one who got treated with kids gloves -- until tonight when voters manhandled him.

Womanhandled too.

Really Biden is not being treated with kids gloves on this thread? You guys complain about Bernie all the time and just shrug when Biden's record is mentioned. How is that not a double standard?

Also how has Biden articulated a good vision on how he would win against Trump? He seems really inarticulate and thin skinned:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.mar...0-B923E11FB575

Is Biden really the sure thing people are making him out to be?

[The Overlord]

They have showed up. They voted for Clinton in high numbers, only beat by Obama in 2008 and 2012, in spite of some bad statements that got played over and over again (“superpredators” anyone?). It needs to be the rest of us who follow suit and support the nominee with the same degree of dedication as black voters have for years. Too many of us were petty in 2016; we can’t be again.

Well Biden will have to bring everyone together and make a good case. Biden is the one who will have to deliver the goods in the general.

[Lord Falcon]

I have not seen one person compare Biden, Klobuchar or Buttigieg to Nazi’s. I have yet to hear them be called racist or problematic for blacks though all three have severe issues. I have yet to see their supporters be likened to Trump supporters.

Big false equivalency

While the sheer toxicity and hostility to everyone who doesn't pass the Bernie Sanders litmus test does feel a bit like Trump, the vocal and hostile Bernie supporters feel more like Ron Paul supporters to me.

And Bernie supporters aren't monolithic. He just has inspired a particularly noisy and fiery base. I have many very intelligent, reasonable-minded friends who support Bernie.

[numberthirty]

They have showed up. They voted for Clinton in high numbers, only beat by Obama in 2008 and 2012, in spite of some bad statements that got played over and over again (“superpredators” anyone?). It needs to be the rest of us who follow suit and support the nominee with the same degree of dedication as black voters have for years. Too many of us were petty in 2016; we can’t be again.

Without trying to be a jerk...

If the Latino support Sanders has don't come out for Biden, will they have been petty?

When it comes to the General, Biden having to get that support when Trump has somehow gained two points of Latino support worries me. Set aside every other concern that I have about Biden winding up with the nomination. Latino voters is where I really get nervous.

[TheDarman]

Well Biden will have to bring everyone together and make a good case. Biden is the one who will have to deliver the goods in the general.

He’s got Obama to help him. The very same Obama who is the most popular politician in the country and is well regarded by moderates, independents, and those in the Democratic Party. Plus, he still is admired by young people. And his connection to Joe Biden is pre-established.

[TheDarman]

Without trying to be a jerk...

If the Latino support Sanders has doesn't come out for Biden, will they have been petty?

When it comes to the General, Biden having to get that support when Trump has somehow gained two points of Latino support worries me. Set aside every other concern that I have about Biden winding up with the nomination. Latino voters is where I really get nervous.

That’s certainly fair. Any candidate has potential drawbacks and constituencies that may become problematic for them. I’m maybe looking too far ahead by looking towards surrogate races, but I think Obama and Biden have a more authentic warmth behind their relationship and what they can do as campaigners together that I think there is cause to be optimistic about getting that coalition for Obama back in 2020.