All purpose news and politics thread part v: The quickening

[TheDarman]

Regardless of "competency" which is in this case is completely subjective, without votes you don't win elections.

Sanders supporters would drag the whole party down just to promote their chosen candidate, even when he doesn't win election contests.

Complaining about how Biden "will" lose while Sanders "is" losing to Biden with no sense of irony.

I also hate to disagree with the common thread of left-leaning critiques of how well Biden would do in November, but Biden’s surge can largely be tied to a 60% vote share of the suburban areas that got Democrats their congressional victories in 2018. That dwarfs what Sanders got, which was in the high teens if I recall correctly. The point being: any candidate would’ve had voter demographic weaknesses where people would have to “hold their nose” and vote for them. The question is if we can get the people who actually turn out for elections now? It appears Biden can get that 2018 coalition back in the game—considering that Bloomberg, in spite of the more legitimate problems both the left and moderates have with him, did well there too and Bloomberg obviously endorsed Biden—which will be important if we want to keep the majority before redistricting creates fairer districts for the House and take back the White House.

SOURCE: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...0fa101a73fb5c/

[PwrdOn]

The Senate was never really in play for Democrats in 2018, and you know it.

It's bad enough to gloat or make excuses, but don't try to do both at the same time. 2018 was a somewhat successful election for Democrats, but let's not pretend like it was some landslide wave election, or that it could have been one if the electoral map had been right. Of course, if you ask me people like AOC and Ilhan Omar made a much bigger impact on the political scene than the dozens of faceless moderates that nobody ever thinks or talks about, but eh what do I know.

[aja_christopher]

It's bad enough to gloat or make excuses, but don't try to do both at the same time. 2018 was a somewhat successful election for Democrats, but let's not pretend like it was some landslide wave election, or that it could have been one if the electoral map had been right. Of course, if you ask me people like AOC and Ilhan Omar made a much bigger impact on the political scene than the dozens of faceless moderates that nobody ever thinks or talks about, but eh what do I know.

Where are the votes and House and Senate seats to back that up?

Where are the young and new voters that Sanders promised would help him win the election?

It's not about asking about you -- it's about looking at the facts and judging accordingly.

If those voters show up, then your case is won.

-----
"Going forward, the math is simple enough for Sanders. He's either gotta win more votes from those voters who regularly turn out, or he'll need to bring more young people to the polls. Failure to do so will result in a Biden nomination."

https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/04/polit...day/index.html

[PwrdOn]

Where are the votes and House and Senate seats to back that up?

Where are the young and new voters that Sanders promised would help him win the election?

It's not about asking about you -- it's about looking at the facts and judging accordingly.

If those voters show up, then your case is won.

That's why it's called leadership right? Set goals for what you want to achieve and make a case that people should trust and follow you. If they have an alternative vision that they'd prefer, so be it, but it seems right now moderates would rather default to [party platform TBD] than risk nominating a socialist, and that doesn't give me any confidence in the party and especially not in their preferred candidate.

[aja_christopher]

That's why it's called leadership right? Set goals for what you want to achieve and make a case that people should trust and follow you. If they have an alternative vision that they'd prefer, so be it, but it seems right now moderates would rather default to [party platform TBD] than risk nominating a socialist, and that doesn't give me any confidence in the party and especially not in their preferred candidate.

The point you seem to keep missing is that it's not about who the "moderates" want to nominate.

It's about who the voters are voting for.

Don't blame others just because voters don't support your candidate and his ideals as much as you think they should.

Blame your candidate for not proving to the public he's the right person to do the job.

[PwrdOn]

The point you seem to keep missing is that it's not about who the "moderates" want to nominate.

It's about who the voters are voting for.

Don't blame others just because voters don't support your candidate and his ideals as much as you think they should.

Blame your candidate for not proving to the public he's the right person to do the job.

I am fairly confident that there is no voter out there that simply wants a generic Democratic platform that promises nothing and just focuses entirely on electability. Every voter has something that they care about and want to change, and if they happen to disagree with me that's no problem, but what I see is that the party is basically trying to appeal to everyone by promising nothing concrete to anyone, and I don't like that one bit. My dislike for moderates isn't based on policy disagreements, it's based on a more fundamental disagreement where I think policy and principles matter more than short term electoral advantage.

[WestPhillyPunisher]

That's why it's called leadership right? Set goals for what you want to achieve and make a case that people should trust and follow you. If they have an alternative vision that they'd prefer, so be it, but it seems right now moderates would rather default to [party platform TBD] than risk nominating a socialist, and that doesn't give me any confidence in the party and especially not in their preferred candidate.

At the risk of sounding simplistic (though I've been called lots worse things), in my mind, and I've said this several times before, this has nothing to do with socialists, moderates, progressives, centrists, leftists or any of that annoying alphabet soup bullshit. This is about nominating the best possible candidate that can beat Donald Trump before he can do more damage to the country and to democracy as a whole with another term. If that candidate is Biden, fine, if it's Sanders, fine, I will fully support either as long as he can get the job done and get rid of THE worst president ever to sit in the Oval Office. That's ALL I care about, what label that candidate chooses to wear doesn't mean a fucking thing to me. If you choose to get hung up over labels instead of focusing on the big picture, that's your problem, not mine.

[aja_christopher]

I am fairly confident that there is no voter out there that simply wants a generic Democratic platform that promises nothing and just focuses entirely on electability. Every voter has something that they care about and want to change, and if they happen to disagree with me that's no problem, but what I see is that the party is basically trying to appeal to everyone by promising nothing concrete to anyone, and I don't like that one bit. My dislike for moderates isn't based on policy disagreements, it's based on a more fundamental disagreement where I think policy and principles matter more than short term electoral advantage.

That's a fair criticism but the fact is that if the objective is to change things, you should go with what works (2018) and then try to make the changes you want to see happen from a position of power.

You can't make any changes if you don't win any elections.

[Kirby101]

Texas Officials Have Already Rigged The 2020 Election. Super Tuesday Is Proof.

And I have been told, on this very forum, that voter suppression doesn't change the outcome of elections. Right?

[TheDarman]

It's bad enough to gloat or make excuses, but don't try to do both at the same time. 2018 was a somewhat successful election for Democrats, but let's not pretend like it was some landslide wave election, or that it could have been one if the electoral map had been right. Of course, if you ask me people like AOC and Ilhan Omar made a much bigger impact on the political scene than the dozens of faceless moderates that nobody ever thinks or talks about, but eh what do I know.

The Senate map actually matters. And Democrats we’re defending twenty-four seats to Republicans’ seven. We lost Indiana and Missouri—which was to be expected. But we got a seat from Alabama and held off challenges everywhere else. And the candidates that lost in Indiana and Missouri has voted against Kavanaugh and Republicans in those states were eager to punish them.

I still don’t see how a double-digit percent popular vote win for the party isn’t a stellar performance. It was historic—and we need to be playing to that part of the coalition that wanted to put a check on Trump. And they were the source of increased voter turnout this time—and they broke heavily for Biden. That’s just the way it is.

[TheDarman]

Texas Officials Have Already Rigged The 2020 Election. Super Tuesday Is Proof.

And I have been told, on this very forum, that voter suppression doesn't change the outcome of elections. Right?

Yeah. We needed to change this yesterday. But, here’s the thing, people stayed in that line. Voter suppression is awful and needs to be corrected. But I am stunned at how awesome the people waiting in line were to wait that long to vote. While we might not win the voter suppression fight before November, though we should be trying everything we can to put an end to it, these folks give me hope that we might very well mitigate some of the effects of voter suppression with the dedication that these folks have had. It’s spectacular.

[PwrdOn]

The Senate map actually matters. And Democrats we’re defending twenty-four seats to Republicans’ seven. We lost Indiana and Missouri—which was to be expected. But we got a seat from Alabama and held off challenges everywhere else. And the candidates that lost in Indiana and Missouri has voted against Kavanaugh and Republicans in those states were eager to punish them.

I still don’t see how a double-digit percent popular vote win for the party isn’t a stellar performance. It was historic—and we need to be playing to that part of the coalition that wanted to put a check on Trump. And they were the source of increased voter turnout this time—and they broke heavily for Biden. That’s just the way it is.

I just don't think we should be celebrating anything until we get some concrete policy wins in the books. Patting ourselves on the back for some supposed "blue wave" that hasn't managed to move the needle an inch in terms of actual governance is a bit pathetic to be honest. I don't know if Bernie can deliver on his promises, but I'm certain he'll put up a better fight than Biden will.

[Kirby101]

Yeah. We needed to change this yesterday. But, here’s the thing, people stayed in that line. Voter suppression is awful and needs to be corrected. But I am stunned at how awesome the people waiting in line were to wait that long to vote. While we might not win the voter suppression fight before November, though we should be trying everything we can to put an end to it, these folks give me hope that we might very well mitigate some of the effects of voter suppression with the dedication that these folks have had. It’s spectacular.

That is good, but there are many people who can't spend hours online because of work or family. Remember they only had to suppress a few thousand votes in WI and MI to steal those States in 2016. It could decide Texas this year.

[kidfresh512]

Yeah. We needed to change this yesterday. But, here’s the thing, people stayed in that line. Voter suppression is awful and needs to be corrected. But I am stunned at how awesome the people waiting in line were to wait that long to vote. While we might not win the voter suppression fight before November, though we should be trying everything we can to put an end to it, these folks give me hope that we might very well mitigate some of the effects of voter suppression with the dedication that these folks have had. It’s spectacular.

Yeah was reading some of the local stories today in Houston.
Harris County’s cascade of election day fumbles disproportionately affected communities of color

Not even 24 hours later, a university forged during segregation would instead become the epicenter of the challenges and complications often faced by communities of color when they attempt to make themselves heard in Texas. Too few voting machines — and technical failures of aging equipment. Insufficient training of election workers. A shoddy system reporting incorrect wait times that routed voters to crowded locations. Long lines that only grew — initially wrapping through a campus library and eventually out into a courtyard — as voters rushed to jump in line before polls closed.

Wait times for voters in the queue, students and other residents of Houston’s Third Ward, extended past the four-hour, then five-hour, then six-hour marks. The last voters at the polling place on campus would ultimately spend nearly an entire workday waiting in line to cast their ballots, nearly seven hours after polls closed.

The excessive wait times were not limited to college campuses or even to the Houston area. But Texas Southern University easily saw the worst of it as a result of a sort of perfect electoral storm in which state voting policy ran into local political disputes that were then met by an unexpected surge in Democratic voters — all at the expense of voters in a predominantly black community.

These stories are disgusting. Local GOP wouldn't allow shared machines with both Democratic and GOP ballots where each person chooses then votes. They didn't want long lines for Republican voters. SO their GOP only machines sat there unused while people waited in line for 4 hours

[aja_christopher]

These stories are disgusting. Local GOP wouldn't allow shared machines with both Democratic and GOP ballots where each person chooses then votes. They didn't want long lines for Republican voters. SO their GOP only machines sat there unused while people waited in line for 4 hours

Vote Republicans out of power.

They had the opportunity to forge a new era in conservative politics after the failure of Bush and instead chose the "birther" Trump to lead the party.

When people show you who they are -- beleive them.