All purpose news and politics thread part v: The quickening

[numberthirty]

...

As for not being able to be questioned about a record or problems with an idea, Trump is about as thin-skinned as one can get. He either blames it on the “fake news media” or simply, outright, says something is “wrong”. Maybe there would be a legitimate issue with Biden in any other election cycle, but not this one.

Thinking that Trump would deliver a win to his opponent was the working theory last time out.

That sort of thinking even being a small part of the plan this time seems less than advisable.

[Tami]

Paul Gosar, Rep of Arizona, is also self-quarantining himself along with 3 staff members just like Ted Cruz. Twitter Link

[Tazirai]

Now you know where SHE stands.

Do you even get that there is a difference between an individual and a collective? This is basic Sesame Street stuff here, Betsy.

I thought you wanted me to ignore you? And you ignore me because I'm a bros?

[Tami]

John Delaney is endorsing Joe Biden.

Some of the responses are as expected.

[TheDarman]

Thinking that Trump would deliver a win to his opponent was the working theory last time out.

That sort of thinking even being a small part of the plan this time seems less than advisable.

I only mean that the things we thought would sink Trump clearly didn’t. Why would we think that it would apply any more so to Biden when he is also a white, straight man in his 70s? He can also promote his time with the most popular politician in the United States, Barack Obama. Sanders wanted the man primaried. So, if Sanders doesn’t have universally popular surrogates to really support HIM, not just as the Democratic nominee, he doesn’t have much else.

His rhetorical approach to issues isn’t even popular among Democrats. And part of Trump’s main unpopularity isn’t his inability to speak, but his inability to accept responsibility and to blame the political establishment. So...we’ll have a guy who has the same issue running against him in the general with no real surrogate support that couldn’t be adequately pointed out to be totally bogus just to beat Trump rather than to elect Sanders.

[Tazirai]

Paul Gosar, Rep of Arizona, is also self-quarantining himself along with 3 staff members just like Ted Cruz. Twitter Link

Good for them. It's probably also a way for them to not have to deal with their party for a while. Also, to take a vacation.

Also, Tami, I answered your query a couple of pages back, and also posted Joe Biden videos of him self incriminating.

[Tazirai]

Before the Moderates, and Centrists get all up on their high horses, as if they aren't already.

Obama/Biden gave us Trump.
Incremental Centrists (aka Bowing your heads to media/GOP) gave us Trump.
4 years of Biden, which is probably not gonna be a thing as Trump will eat him. DNC can't protect or hide him then. Will get us another Trump OR TRUMP again.

Because Centrist policies and "Pragmatism" and "Getting things (Vague things) done" is seen as a policy prescription?

[Steel Inquisitor]

Compared to challenging a guy to a pushup contest simply because he was pressed a little bit on an issue?

No, it is not even remotely concerning.

Of course you don't. It's in your interest for the weakest candidate to get to the general.

Since the General will be up against a Republican, your concerns about what you think Sanders issues are amount to an essential non-issue. Never mind that Democrats giving Biden the benefit of the doubt might not save him in a General where they are not the entirety of the vote.

Giving leftists false hope when you know the concerns I have will be monumentally destructive if he gets anywhere near Trump.

Never mind that Sanders is still not far away from being tied with Biden even though his campaign is apparently going up in smoke.

Again, Sanders?

He is ready to deal with attacks on who he is in a General.

Sanders is horrible at dealing with attacks.

Nothing I have seen so far does anything like leading me to believe that Biden is anything like ready to deal with repeated hits on what he actually has done. Forget the stuff that he is losing his cool over thus far.

Back to focusing on Biden, shaping the narrative that Sanders is ok when he's had a horrible week.

[numberthirty]

I only mean that the things we thought would sink Trump clearly didn’t. Why would we think that it would apply any more so to Biden when he is also a white, straight man in his 70s? He can also promote his time with the most popular politician in the United States, Barack Obama. Sanders wanted the man primaried. So, if Sanders doesn’t have universally popular surrogates to really support HIM, not just as the Democratic nominee, he doesn’t have much else.

His rhetorical approach to issues isn’t even popular among Democrats. And part of Trump’s main unpopularity isn’t his inability to speak, but his inability to accept responsibility and to blame the political establishment. So...we’ll have a guy who has the same issue running against him in the general with no real surrogate support that couldn’t be adequately pointed out to be totally bogus just to beat Trump rather than to elect Sanders.

Simple.

He is basing his run on not being that.

If it starts looking even remotely like that is out the window and folks will have to decide between shakes of "Kooky..."?

Trump has pulled that one out. I'm less certain that Biden can.

[Steel Inquisitor]

Before the Moderates, and Centrists get all up on their high horses, as if they aren't already.

Obama/Biden gave us Trump.
Incremental Centrists (aka Bowing your heads to media/GOP) gave us Trump.
4 years of Biden, which is probably not gonna be a thing as Trump will eat him. DNC can't protect or hide him then. Will get us another Trump OR TRUMP again.

Because Centrist policies and "Pragmatism" and "Getting things (Vague things) done" is seen as a policy prescription?

It's GOP propaganda to blame the Democrats for Trump. The only reasonable explanation for that is due to the progress Obama made and the inherent racism it triggered by being a Black man in the White House. Try to focus on the people who did elect Trump, the Republican party.

[Tazirai]

It's GOP propaganda to blame the Democrats for Trump. The only reasonable explanation for that is due to the progress Obama made and the inherent racism it triggered by being a Black man in the White House. Try to focus on the people who did elect Trump, the Republican party.

This is false.

Which Policy of the Democratic party did they fight for over the years outside of Obama care?
Which Propaganda can you name, that I can probably dismantle with actual facts?

Is there GOP Propaganda, of course, both sides, ALL sides do Propaganda. But tell me which policy did the Democrats promote and fight for that lost them the white house, or which policy did they fight for, that GOP Propaganda made people vote for them?

I'd really love to see your rationale for GOP propaganda costing Democrats loses, and not Democrats themselves.

[numberthirty]

This is false.

Which Policy of the Democratic party did they fight for over the years outside of Obama care?
Which Propaganda can you name, that I can probably dismantle with actual facts?

Is there GOP Propaganda, of course, both sides, ALL sides do Propaganda. But tell me which policy did the Democrats promote and fight for that lost them the white house, or which policy did they fight for, that GOP Propaganda made people vote for them?

I'd really love to see your rationale for GOP propaganda costing Democrats loses, and not Democrats themselves.

Never mind that saying Card Check would be a priority while it never got done put Trump in a totally perfect spot to make an appeal to union members.

[TheDarman]

This is false.

Which Policy of the Democratic party did they fight for over the years outside of Obama care?
Which Propaganda can you name, that I can probably dismantle with actual facts?

Is there GOP Propaganda, of course, both sides, ALL sides do Propaganda. But tell me which policy did the Democrats promote and fight for that lost them the white house, or which policy did they fight for, that GOP Propaganda made people vote for them?

I'd really love to see your rationale for GOP propaganda costing Democrats loses, and not Democrats themselves.

As a Political Science major, I hardly ever get to use the actual “science” that I learned getting my BA. Behold...a perfect opportunity! Did Obama and Clinton cause Trump? Nope, it’s actually a little concept called...

Asymmetric polarization!

In short, the parties have both been drifting further and further into their own ideological corners. Yes! This does mean that all things considered Obama and Clinton were further to the left of FDR and LBJ. This is all things considered though, so we aren’t saying they were further to the left economically. Reagan actually fundamentally realigned what neoliberal policy meant after FDR (the progressive hero) pushed for its implementation on the world stage. Neoliberal policy was thus reshaped to mean more “laissez faire” attitudes on economic stuff, which was never the initial intention—initially the idea was to have robust social welfare states. Obama, especially, was probably as close to FDR as any two-term Democrat has been since, but Reagan fundamentally reshaped this.

Of course, in recent years, “asymmetric” means both sides weren’t drifting as far apart. Sanders is a reaction to this—there is a side of the Democratic Party that wanted to move further to the left. Trump, meanwhile, was a reaction to the right’s persistent push towards the right that hadn’t been stopped since Reagan.

No, the reason we have Trump is because Trump was viewed as less partisan than Clinton, who herself was running on the most progressive platform that any Democrat has ever run on. Trump, meanwhile, made a campaign that was built on populist promises of working on infrastructure, keeping Social Security and Medicare, and not being a social conservative except for the winning issue of abortion (at least with evangelicals). Of course, we now know he never intended to keep them, but Trump represented a shake-up, not just to the neoliberal policies that people felt had left them behind (largely because we were missing the robust social welfare state we initially understood to be necessary), but to the two-party system they saw to be increasingly radicalizing.

[Tazirai]

As a Political Science major, I hardly ever get to use the actual “science” that I learned getting my BA. Behold...a perfect opportunity! Did Obama and Clinton cause Trump? Nope, it’s actually a little concept called...

Asymmetric polarization!

In short, the parties have both been drifting further and further into their own ideological corners. Yes! This does mean that all things considered Obama and Clinton were further to the left of FDR and LBJ. This is all things considered though, so we aren’t saying they were further to the left economically. Reagan actually fundamentally realigned what neoliberal policy meant after FDR (the progressive hero) pushed for its implementation on the world stage. Neoliberal policy was thus reshaped to mean more “laissez faire” attitudes on economic stuff, which was never the initial intention—initially the idea was to have robust social welfare states. Obama, especially, was probably as close to FDR as any two-term Democrat has been since, but Reagan fundamentally reshaped this.

Of course, in recent years, “asymmetric” means both sides weren’t drifting as far apart. Sanders is a reaction to this—there is a side of the Democratic Party that wanted to move further to the left. Trump, meanwhile, was a reaction to the right’s persistent push towards the right that hadn’t been stopped since Reagan.

No, the reason we have Trump is because Trump was viewed as less partisan than Clinton, who herself was running on the most progressive platform that any Democrat has ever run on. Trump, meanwhile, made a campaign that was built on populist promises of working on infrastructure, keeping Social Security and Medicare, and not being a social conservative except for the winning issue of abortion (at least with evangelicals). Of course, we now know he never intended to keep them, but Trump represented a shake-up, not just to the neoliberal policies that people felt had left them behind (largely because we were missing the robust social welfare state we initially understood to be necessary), but to the two-party system they saw to be increasingly radicalizing.

Well according to the Overton window. Both American parties have BOTH moved further to the RIGHT!

Democrats have move so far to the right, that Bernie is seen as some Radical leftist, when he's a true moderate.
In any other nation, including several I've lived in, he'd be a moderate/centrist.


Democrats Move to the Right (Overton Window)

[TheDarman]

Well according to the Overton window. Both American parties have BOTH moved further to the RIGHT!

Democrats have move so far to the right, that Bernie is seen as some Radical leftist, when he's a true moderate.
In any other nation, including several I've lived in, he'd be a moderate/centrist.


Democrats Move to the Right (Overton Window)

Overton Window is something I’ve never heard of. Not to say it isn’t legitimate, but not even my most liberal professors brought it up (and many of my more liberal professors openly said they were in support of Sanders or Warren). Meanwhile, the concept of asymmetric polarization was a phenomena we studied in every one of those classes and we could replicate ourselves based on the votes on particular bills and/or actionable support for particular policies. It is important to note, perhaps, asymmetrical polarization was a concept that was uniquely explored in the American context. Internationally, that analysis may differ as we all acknowledge that Sanders’ policies are normative in other Western countries. But my perspective is always to look at the American political context for American political action. Perhaps it is narrow, granted, but I think it yields better context at the localized level and allows us to better understand what arguments work and what don’t on our national level.