All purpose news and politics thread part v: The quickening

[aja_christopher]

Fine, but I think Bernie should try to concessions out of Biden in exchange for his help.

I was being somewhat fatuous.

But I stand my point, that this Bernie Bros argument was used as a straw man argument to shield people like Biden from criticism and just dismiss Bernie's movement because of a tiny minority of obnoxious people online.

You want party unity, ditch the straw man and actually work towards a compromise almost everyone can tolerate.

Better that you should stop lying about people and ranting on message boards regarding a political system you obviously know little to nothing about.

You're in a foreign country trying to lecture Americans regarding their own political parties when you've repeatedly shown complete ignorance regarding basic voting patterns in this country while likewise insulting said Americans and even outright making up things about them just to feel morally superior.

I've already told you -- if Sanders wins the nomination, he gets my vote and the same goes for Biden.

That's "unity" -- not sitting here asking why people should vote for Sanders (or Kamala, or Beto, or Buttigieg, or Biden) if they win the nomination.

The only reason this is even happening is because Sanders supporters can't accept him losing -- if he had more votes, he'd be the nominee.

[The Overlord]

Here are the policies of "almost Trump" Biden.

https://www.politico.com/2020-electi...ues/joe-biden/

I am not saying he is almost Trump, but when he talks about nonsense like ''marijuana being a gateway drug'' or expresses antipathy towards Medicare for All, he comes as a Republican in those moments. Clearly he is better than Trump and some of that stuff is good, but he has to win and winning may mean changing those points I mentioned.

[Mister Mets]

I'm curious about your thoughts on an issue in my neck of the woods. As many of you know, I'm a teacher in New York City.

New York state has the highest number of coronavirus cases. The New York City school system will remain tomorrow, at the insistence of Mayor Bill De Blasio.

https://www.nytimes.com/aponline/202...sultPosition=1

As schools across the U.S. shut down in hopes of helping to fight the coronavirus, New York City officials are arguing just the opposite: They're keeping the nation's largest school system open to ensure that health and emergency workers aren't tied down with kids at home.

But teachers, many parents and some health experts say the city is making a grave mistake by continuing to call more than 1.1 million children to public schools even as it calls for “social distancing” elsewhere to stem the virus' spread.

While many families elsewhere in the country spent Saturday making hasty plans for an unexpected school shutdown, New Yorkers debated the city's decision.

"You're not going to have a functioning health care system if the folks in the medical field, the doctors, the nurses, the techs, everyone has to stay home with their kids,” Mayor Bill de Blasio said on MSNBC.

Schools stay open even if students and teachers test positive for Coronavirus.

De Blasio, a Democrat, has not ruled out closing schools eventually and said city officials would continue a day-by-day examination. But he has noted that the federal Centers for Disease Control and Prevention say that while there can be reasons to shut schools, it's not clear that closures will make more difference than other measures, such as hand-washing and isolating the sick.

But Dr. Dena Grayson, a researcher and infectious disease expert who works in the private sector, called de Blasio's decision so far to keep schools open “incredibly foolish.”

“The virus will spread like wildfire among the children. They get infected, and they can spread that virus easily to older people who are at a much higher risk," she said.

The city has confirmed coronavirus cases in at least two public school students and at least one teacher. Their schools have been closed for cleaning but are expected to reopen.

The other stated reasons for keeping schools open are because many students depend on schools for breakfast and lunch.

Teachers suggest the city could find ways to provide child care for health care workers — and supply food to the hundreds of thousands of poor students who depend on school meals — without keeping the entire school system open.

De Blasio has said that any alternative would recreate the problem that closing schools would seek to solve: People congregating.

Gov. Andrew Cuomo, a Democrat, said school closings remain “purely a local decision” unless a student tests positive, in which case a school must be closed for cleaning.

“The closing of schools is a significant trade-off of benefits and burdens,” he said Saturday in a conference call with reporters. "If you close the schools, there are people who will not show up for work the next day. The public education system is also a day care, in many ways.”

The union thinks schools should close.

"We recommend that New York City follow the example of affected jurisdictions around the region, the nation and even the world in closing our public schools. We don’t suggest this lightly. We understand the immense disruption this will create for our families. But right now more than a million students and staff crisscross the city every day on their way to schools, putting themselves and others at risk of exposure and increasing the likelihood of bringing exposure into their homes and communities."

City Council Speaker Corey Johnson thinks schools should close.

It’s past time we come up with a plan to responsibly close NYC public schools.

Today we have a confirmed #coronavirus case at P.S. 306 in Queens. The administration’s current plan is to reopen for classes tomorrow pending investigation.

I repeat - schools should close.

We need to close the schools and set up feeding and child care centers for essential workers, homeless children and families that rely on these services every day.

Let’s do that right away.

What do you guys think is the right course of action?

[The Overlord]

Better that you should stop lying about people and ranting on message boards regarding a political system you obviously know little to nothing about.

You're in a foreign country trying to lecture Americans regarding their own political parties when you've repeatedly shown complete ignorance regarding basic voting patterns in this country while likewise insulting said Americans and even outright making up things about them just to feel morally superior.

I've already told you -- if Sanders wins the nomination, he gets my vote and the same goes for Biden.

That's "unity" -- not sitting here asking why I should vote for Sanders (or Kamala, or Beto, or Buttigieg, or Biden) if they win the nomination.

You can sit here and argue all you want to but don't lie just to support Sanders.

I am actually part American, my mother is an American, so I am well within my rights to talk about your system and your system is dysfunctional, that is why you have a President Trump.

Your system is a decaying machine that allows for gerrymandering and insane amounts of dark money, the GOP has jerry-rigged the system to serve their interests, while your party was asleep at the wheel.

The Canadian system is not great, but its leagues better than your system, Trump is the natural outcome of your system and you want to put a bandaid on it, as long as the system remains the same, you will get a million Trump clones.

Biden will not fix the system and it will continue to decay and it will be unsuited to deal with long term issues like a climate change disaster.

[PaulBullion]

More Darwin Award worthy conservatism:

[mathew101281]

In a strange way this pandemic might be weirdly beneficial in a weird way. It’s revealing how our media is inflaming panic rather then informing us. It’s showing unequipped our government is to handle pandemics and it’s showing how irrational and greedy people become in perilous situation.

[aja_christopher]

I am actually part American, my mother is an American, so I am well within my rights to talk about your system and your system is dysfunctional, that is why you have a President Trump.

Your system is a decaying machine that allows for gerrymandering and insane amounts of dark money, the GOP has jerry-rigged the system to serve their interests, while your party was asleep at the wheel.

The Canadian system is not great, but its leagues better than your system, Trump is the natural outcome of your system and you want to put a bandaid on it, as long as the system remains the same, you will get a million Trump clones.

Biden will not fix the system and it will continue to decay and it will be unsuited to deal with long term issues like a climate change disaster.

You keep dodging the most obvious fact -- Sanders will not fix the system if he can't win an election or pass things through Congress.

Attacking everyone but Sanders just makes you look biased and uninformed -- again, if Sanders could win, there'd be no need for you to come here trying to act superior to others while lying about their views and picking fights with anyone who has a different opinion from yours.

It's telling that Sanders supporters can blame everyone but Sanders for his poltical failures and his inability win elections.

What do you guys think is the right course of action?

Public health should be a priority -- at least until we have a better understanding of the situation as a whole.

A brief inconvenience is better than a potential long-term epidemic or what we are seeing in China, Italy and Spain.

Ideally, the government should be there for citizens in these situations but Republicans are more concerned about tax cuts for the wealthy than saving American lives (or funding unemployment and affordable health care) -- therefore, I think anyone who votes Republican is also responsible.

-----
"Trump spent the past 2 years slashing the government agencies responsible for handling the coronavirus outbreak"

https://www.businessinsider.com/trum...navirus-2020-2

[PaulBullion]

In a strange way this pandemic might be weirdly beneficial in a weird way. It’s revealing how our media is inflaming panic rather then informing us. It’s showing unequipped our government is to handle pandemics and it’s showing how irrational and greedy people become in perilous situation.

Also how conservatism in the US has become a death cult.

[Jack Dracula]

Will he though? That's the question for some of the voters...

Yes, that's how paradigms shift within political parties.
For a real world example, look at how the Tea Party influenced the Republican Party last decade.
What had been considered a fringe extremist grass-roots movement gained clout when their candidates swept the house in 2010. The GOP became morphed along with the TP ideals and in 2015 Trump became the surprise Republican candidate by expressing TP ideas about immigration, taxes, gun control, etc.

[PaulBullion]

Yes, that's how paradigms shift within political parties.
For a real world example, look at how the Tea Party influenced the Republican Party last decade.
What had been considered a fringe extremist grass-roots movement gained clout when their candidates swept the house in 2010. The GOP became morphed along with the TP ideals and in 2015 Trump became the surprise Republican candidate by expressing TP ideas about immigration, taxes, gun control, etc.

But wouldn't it have been so much easier to nominate a presidential candidate with magical powers instead?

[PaulBullion]

Let's face it: One of the best debate performances in history only made Liz Warren the front runner in my heart.

Bernie could literally walk on water tonight and announce his engagement to Rihanna and he'd still not be popular enough to beat Biden.

[The Overlord]

You keep dodging the most obvious fact -- Sanders will not fix the system if he can't win an election or pass things through Congress.

Attacking everyone but Sanders just makes you look biased and uninformed -- again, if Sanders could win, there'd be no need for you to come here trying to act superior to others while lying about their views and picking fights with anyone who has a different opinion from yours.

It's telling that Sanders supporters can blame everyone but Sanders for his poltical failures and his inability win elections.



Public health should be a priority -- at least until we have a better understanding of the situation as a whole.

A brief inconvenience is better than a potential long-term epidemic or what we are seeing in China, Italy and Spain.

Ideally, the government should be there for citizens in these situations but Republicans are more concerned about tax cuts for the wealthy than saving American lives (or funding unemployment and affordable health care) -- therefore, I think anyone who votes Republican is also responsible.

-----
"Trump spent the past 2 years slashing the government agencies responsible for handling the coronavirus outbreak"

https://www.businessinsider.com/trum...navirus-2020-2

You thinking I am stupid it does not make it so and unearned hubris is a luxury you cannot afford you want to beat Trump.

Also I said if Bernie loses because he relied youth turnout that did not happen that would be his fault, are you telling a fib about me now?

I know that Bernie on it's own will not change things, but it's a good first step, what is needed is for the left to fight as hard the right does, but it seems like the centrist liberals do not have the stomach for a real fight, they want to play a friendly game with the other side, while the other side prepares for war.

The Dems lost 1000 seats during the Obama years in state capitals, what are you going to do prevent that next time and what are you going to do fight gerrymandering on the state level, it seems like you guys fell asleep and let the GOP rig everything in their favor.

I know your system, just I do not respect it, there is a difference.

The US system is dysfunctional because the GOP has rigged it in their favor and the Dems did a poor job in stopping them.

[PwrdOn]

Yes, that's how paradigms shift within political parties.
For a real world example, look at how the Tea Party influenced the Republican Party last decade.
What had been considered a fringe extremist grass-roots movement gained clout when their candidates swept the house in 2010. The GOP became morphed along with the TP ideals and in 2015 Trump became the surprise Republican candidate by expressing TP ideas about immigration, taxes, gun control, etc.

The Tea Party was nothing more than a clever bit of astroturfing. What they were espousing wasn't really revolutionary or anti-establishment in any way, it was in fact what the GOP really believed in all along. However, taking such horrific positions openly offended their patrician sensibilities, so they just funded a bunch of useful idiots to spread that message for them, and then acted like they were just powerless to stand in the way of this tidal wave of "popular" sentiment. Indeed, the shift away from that vaguely libertarian bent to full on nationalistic MAGA rhetoric is just the next iteration of all that.

I always thought it curious that the Tea Party and Occupy both emerged at around the same time, and while Occupy was quickly shuffled aside and died a quick death, the Tea Party morphed into this permanent institution even though any sensible onlooker would realize that their policies were MUCH worse and had far less genuine popular support. Nobody just gets it in their head one day to start protesting in defense of private health insurance, that just set off all sorts of alarms for me.

[XPac]

Let's face it: One of the best debate performances in history only made Liz Warren the front runner in my heart.

Bernie could literally walk on water tonight and announce his engagement to Rihanna and he'd still not be popular enough to beat Biden.

I don't think Bernie can win it, but I think Biden can lose it.

If we get a Biden that doesn't know what day of the week it is or what he's running for, I think plenty might second guess the strength of this candidate.

He doesn't have to do great or even good ... he just needs to NOT look senile. He's got the lowest bar in history to meet.

[PaulBullion]

I don't think Bernie can win it, but I think Biden can lose it.

If we get a Biden that doesn't know what day of the week it is or what he's running for, I think plenty might second guess the strength of this candidate.

He doesn't have to do great or even good ... he just needs to NOT look senile. He's got the lowest bar in history to meet.

I am guessing it will not have a studio audience due to the pandemic?

That means no Bernie Bros booing Biden. Another strike against Sanders.