All purpose news and politics thread part v: The quickening

[XPac]

Activism, advocacy, education...also motivation.

That's not necessarily an inherent fault in the system though.

I think for progressives, if you are reliant on a relatively speaking unreliable voting base in young voters, you're simply going to have to work twice as hard. That, and hope when those young voters get older they don't suddenly become conservatives.

[Tazirai]

Oh thanks Scott. Marie Newman a Justice Democrat beat Dan Lipinski. Lipinski was the worst, and was supported by the Centrists and corporatism. Sometimes running twice is the way to go.

Today Progressives, I think will learn we need to win locally more, get the name recognition higher, then run again. Keep primarying these corporatists and even other Progressives. This was a great and needed win. He was a Pelosi favorite. Glad he was defeated.

LIVE UPDATES: Marie Newman defeats Rep. Dan Lipinski in major upset in Illinois' 3rd Congressional District

[TheDarman]

That's obviously not what I mean though. I mean someone who is like a dyed in the wool Joe Biden loyalist, someone who really believes that he has what it takes to right the ship and make the country great again, that he is uniquely qualified to step in at this critical moment in our history and provide the firm but compassionate leadership that we need. And mind you, I live in Delaware at the moment and, while I don't have the deepest roots in the state, have spent enough time here that I feel like if such loyal Biden supporters really existed I would have met some by now.

There were obviously some as Biden still did have quite a bit of support in the crowded field. Just because your social circles haven’t demonstrated that doesn’t mean there aren’t those out there that are fond of Biden. Additionally, I think Sanders has a fairly high floor of support, but also a fairly low ceiling. In other words, he has a group of people who LOVE him and a much larger group of people that aren’t fond of him. I’d say that bodes worse in the general than a candidate who a larger group of people shrug their shoulders for and vote for them anyway.

Call me crazy, I just find the fact that you guys are so eager to dunk on Bernie's apparent downfall but aren't willing to offer up even tepid statements of support for Biden bodes poorly for his success in the general.

Well, Biden is definitely more well-liked than Clinton, even in the primary process. He took some of Sanders’ 2016 supporters, particularly among moderates who surely voted for Sanders as the not-Clinton candidate. I’d say that is a good sign for overperforming 2016’s popular vote winner.

And, I’ll say it, I like Joe Biden. He reminds me of my grandpa and I feel like I’m not being berated and condescended to. Sure, he isn’t my idol, like Barack Obama was. I don’t necessarily want to grow up to be like Biden, while I still kinda do for Obama. But I do like the way he talks and the tone he strikes. And I certainly like it better than Bernie Sanders, whose constant finger-wagging and berating of people who disagree with him as “corporatist” or worse reminds me too much of older, white males who had been emotionally or mentally harmful to me. Maybe that is shallow of me, but that is the truth.

[InformationGeek]

Meanwhile, with real assholes screwing everything up for everyone that we should REALLY focus on, here's Rand Paul being a dick.

Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell said the Senate would move at "warp speed" to pass coronavirus legislation on Tuesday, but Sen. Rand Paul, R-Ky., put a damper on those plans, two leadership sources told NBC News.

Senators were on Tuesday heading towards a vote on the package — which includes provisions for free coronavirus testing, secures paid emergency leave, enhances unemployment insurance, strengthens food security initiatives, and increases federal Medicaid funding to states — but had to slam the brakes on because of an amendment Paul proposed.

The sources said Paul is forcing a vote on his amendment, which would "require a social security number for purposes of the child tax credit, and to provide the President the authority to transfer funds as necessary, and to terminate United States military operations and reconstruction activities in Afghanistan."

McConnell agreed to take up the amendment on Wednesday, delaying the vote on the larger bill, the sources said. The Paul amendment is not expected to pass.

McConnell, the senior senator from Kentucky, said earlier Tuesday a number of his members think the package that the House passed on Saturday has "considerable shortcomings" but is still necessary and urgent.

"My counsel to them is to gag and vote for it," he said.

“We’re able to rise above our normal partisanship and many times our normal positions because these are not ordinary times. This is not an ordinary time,” he said.

Paul was the sole "no" vote on the $8.3 billion coronavirus spending bill the Senate passed earlier this month.

[ed2962]

That's not necessarily an inherent fault in the system though.

I think for progressives, if you are reliant on a relatively speaking unreliable voting base in young voters, you're simply going to have to work twice as hard. That, and hope when those young voters get older they don't suddenly become conservatives.

Oh, I didn't mean to suggest that it was a fault in the system, just that it's how you get young people engaged...and how frankly you push any big movement forward. The labor movement, civil rights, women's rights, LGBT rights...none of these things happened over night, but they also didn't happen from simply voting for the most "electable " and then trusting their goals were the same as those people in same movements ( who didn't always agree with each other).

[PwrdOn]

There were obviously some as Biden still did have quite a bit of support in the crowded field. Just because your social circles haven’t demonstrated that doesn’t mean there aren’t those out there that are fond of Biden. Additionally, I think Sanders has a fairly high floor of support, but also a fairly low ceiling. In other words, he has a group of people who LOVE him and a much larger group of people that aren’t fond of him. I’d say that bodes worse in the general than a candidate who a larger group of people shrug their shoulders for and vote for them anyway.

Well, Biden is definitely more well-liked than Clinton, even in the primary process. He took some of Sanders’ 2016 supporters, particularly among moderates who surely voted for Sanders as the not-Clinton candidate. I’d say that is a good sign for overperforming 2016’s popular vote winner.

I mean, I think that it's important to have that hard core base of supporters as a foundation for your campaign, particularly in the general election when a lot of swing voters and undecideds might start wavering if the Trump campaign goes full tilt with the negative campaigning. We always say that Hillary was the most unpopular candidate ever, but we all knew exactly who HER people were - upper middle class, educated women who saw her as an inspirational figure and continue to stand by her to this day. Same thing with Obama, no matter how much mud was being slung and how much that big tent coalition that carried him to victory in 2008 was starting to buckle under its own weight, he could count on black voters to deliver his re-election victory. I'm just not seeing who Biden's people are, he has a bunch of voters who see him as the least worst option, but that's about it.

[Steel Inquisitor]

There were obviously some as Biden still did have quite a bit of support in the crowded field. Just because your social circles haven’t demonstrated that doesn’t mean there aren’t those out there that are fond of Biden. Additionally, I think Sanders has a fairly high floor of support, but also a fairly low ceiling. In other words, he has a group of people who LOVE him and a much larger group of people that aren’t fond of him. I’d say that bodes worse in the general than a candidate who a larger group of people shrug their shoulders for and vote for them anyway.



Well, Biden is definitely more well-liked than Clinton, even in the primary process. He took some of Sanders’ 2016 supporters, particularly among moderates who surely voted for Sanders as the not-Clinton candidate. I’d say that is a good sign for overperforming 2016’s popular vote winner.

And, I’ll say it, I like Joe Biden. He reminds me of my grandpa and I feel like I’m not being berated and condescended to. Sure, he isn’t my idol, like Barack Obama was. I don’t necessarily want to grow up to be like Biden, while I still kinda do for Obama. But I do like the way he talks and the tone he strikes. And I certainly like it better than Bernie Sanders, whose constant finger-wagging and berating of people who disagree with him as “corporatist” or worse reminds me too much of older, white males who had been emotionally or mentally harmful to me. Maybe that is shallow of me, but that is the truth.

It's irritating how some leftists push the narrative that only leftist politicians are capable of being popular with the public, ignoring the context that they get overrun by voters in elections. Likes on twitter aren't going to get politicians elected. It's learning the wrong lessons from success stories like AOC.

[Robotman]

So you recognize the system is broken, yet your solution is just to keep working within the system and keep pushing out weak candidates that will be happy to take whatever scraps the Republicans offer up, and calling that progress?



I have yet to meet one person who actually likes Biden as a candidate, and isn't just voting for him because of electability or party unity or whatever. So like, that wouldn't exactly be the will of the people if they're voting for a candidate they don't really want.

But believing a certain candidate is more electable and has a better chance of uniting the party are two hugely important aspects when the opposition is Trump. We really can’t brush those aside. Those are two pretty damn good reasons to vote for someone. I voted for Warren but I can understand why some people voted for Joe. The fear of 4 more years of The Orange Fuhrer was enough for people to choose the candidate promising to bring the country back to sanity and “normalcy.” Plus older people and blue collar voters like him. Two categories of voters that the Democrats have lost over the years.

I’m not a huge fan of Biden but let’s not act like he has zero positive attributes.

[TheDarman]

I mean, I think that it's important to have that hard core base of supporters as a foundation for your campaign, particularly in the general election when a lot of swing voters and undecideds might start wavering if the Trump campaign goes full tilt with the negative campaigning. We always say that Hillary was the most unpopular candidate ever, but we all knew exactly who HER people were - upper middle class, educated women who saw her as an inspirational figure and continue to stand by her to this day. Same thing with Obama, no matter how much mud was being slung and how much that big tent coalition that carried him to victory in 2008 was starting to buckle under its own weight, he could count on black voters to deliver his re-election victory. I'm just not seeing who Biden's people are, he has a bunch of voters who see him as the least worst option, but that's about it.

But that coalition is broader than Clinton’s and that bodes well for a general. And obviously people are fired up about something. That something may be kicking Trump out of office, but turnout has surged since 2016. There are more people voting and voting for Biden too. Call that what you will, but I think that is enthusiasm. Whether you understand it or not is something else.

[Powerboy]

This really is just another way of saying not Trump though. And sure, we do need to get rid of Trump, to put an end to the things you mentioned. But Democrats tried this approach four years ago with Clinton and it didn’t work. I think Biden will have the same issue, especially in key states like Michigan, Pennsylvania, and Wisconsin.

What Biden is proposing is just not going to change much, people need healthcare, they need affordable education, they need a living wage, they need affordable housing.

It will certainly help if the Democrats keep their hold on the House though it sounds as if taking back the Senate will be very unlikely under the current system and that will kill a lot of things that are best for the vast majority. But the thing is that Biden does seem more of a realist who will negotiate and get some of what we need while Sanders is far less likely to compromise and hence get nothing done despite having loftier goals.

If the Democrats win decisively, that could change things. It's going to take time no matter what. Younger people tend to be more in agreement with Sanders' ideals but they don't vote. People my age tend to buy the Conservative horse manure. I think we will eventually go to National Health care as the face of the voting public changes but it's not going to help me. But isn't that the essence of the difference? Liberals generally care about what the world will be for future generations and conservatives care about their own generation and the past.

[GindyPosts]

She waiting for that Tulsimentum to kick in any moment now.

To begin in 2047.

[Kevinroc]

Poll: As Coronavirus Spreads, Fewer Americans See Pandemic As A Real Threat

https://www.npr.org/2020/03/17/81650...-a-real-threat

In the face of the coronavirus worsening across the U.S. and reordering the daily life of millions of Americans, fewer people view the pandemic as a real threat, according to a new NPR/PBS NewsHour/Marist poll.

Just about 56% of Americans consider the coronavirus a "real threat," representing a drop of 10 percentage points from last month. At the same time, a growing number of Americans think the coronavirus is being "blown out of proportion."

The differences between political parties are stark, with a majority of Republicans saying it is overblown and the vast majority of Democrats considering it a legitimate threat.

"Since the pandemic has taken root and grown in the United States, Democrats and Republicans are now poles apart," said Lee Miringoff, director of the Marist College Institute of Public Opinion. "The consequences of these differing perspectives are shaping how people are responding to calls for action."

Overall, fewer than half of U.S. adults are changing behaviors such as eating from home more often or canceling plans to avoid crowds, as recommended.

[PwrdOn]

It will certainly help if the Democrats keep their hold on the House though it sounds as if taking back the Senate will be very unlikely under the current system and that will kill a lot of things that are best for the vast majority. But the thing is that Biden does seem more of a realist who will negotiate and get some of what we need while Sanders is far less likely to compromise and hence get nothing done despite having loftier goals.

If the Democrats win decisively, that could change things. It's going to take time no matter what. Younger people tend to be more in agreement with Sanders' ideals but they don't vote. People my age tend to buy the Conservative horse manure. I think we will eventually go to National Health care as the face of the voting public changes but it's not going to help me. But isn't that the essence of the difference? Liberals generally care about what the world will be for future generations and conservatives care about their own generation and the past.

It wasn't really until the Reagan administration that this whole "fuck you I got mine" attitude was openly embraced among conservatives. Oh sure, behind the veil that's what they had always believed all along, but they always used to have to bend over backwards offering vague justifications for it along religious or societal grounds, like there was just kind of this natural order to things and everything only works if everybody knew their place, never mind that the people at the top who were siphoning off most of the gains didn't seem to be contributing all that much themselves. And that really shifted the tone of politics in this country because, instead of being like these stalwart guardians of tradition, conservatives adopted a lot of radical tactics that drastically reshaped the socioeconomic order into its current form that really didn't fit with any kind of pre-existing convention that was being conserved but was rather something new entirely. Meanwhile liberals somehow found ourselves on the back foot constantly trying to reset everything back to the way it was, forgetting that the world of the 60s and 70s still fell far short of the fair and just society we all used to aspire to live in.

[Tendrin]

Glad to see Lipinksi went down. His seat is safely blue and there's no reason he should be representing that district from what we know of it.

[Tendrin]

Poll: As Coronavirus Spreads, Fewer Americans See Pandemic As A Real Threat

https://www.npr.org/2020/03/17/81650...-a-real-threat

This is a direct result of Fox News and the Republicans downplaying the threat. It's too late for them to change that first impression, now, and we're all going to pay the price for they, and their voters, dismissal. This will, of course, change when reality starts to land.