All purpose news and politics thread part v: The quickening

[GOLGO 13]

Anyone dismissing the economy and concerns over the effect these lock downs are having on it is whistling past the graveyard.

The economy isn't just massive corporations or banks, hell they'll be the ones most able to weather this. No, it also includes all of those small independent businesses that people here are always pretending to support. It includes restaurants, bars, construction companies, insurance companies, sales people, landlords, farmers, etc. These people are hurting and no federal assistance is going to allow them to survive for more than a few weeks without reopening.

Hell, it's not only just about general economic activity but about other things like simply being able to pay your mortgage/rent/loans.

The longer this goes on the greater the pressure will build and the more likely it will be that states begin lifting their restrictions and anybody refusing to address this is a moron.

If there's not a massive nationwide spike in the number of sick/dead you're going to see this start to occur by roughly Easter.

TRUMP 2020 because, eh, ah, hmmm..

Also, Dan Patrick wants Grandpa to die. Because Republicans care more about Wall Street than people.

Republicans will kill us all to save their corporate masters.

Death cult leader and pool boy connoisseur Jerry Falwell Jr is making Liberty University open for business, ordering staff to come to work and inviting 5000 potential Typhoid Mary students back.

There we go. Cocaine is a hell of a drug.

The Christo-fascist, closeted neo-con, death cult wants the end times to happen like NOW...desperately.

[KNIGHT OF THE LAKE]

This is why I voted for Clinton despite all the crap I gave her. Not because I liked her politics or thought she would advance my priorities. Simply because I knew if **** hit the fan at least there would be an adult in the room and I wouldn’t need to worry that the President would facilitate a catastrophe.

It’s the same reason in the end I’m going to begrudgingly vote Biden.

He does a lot of bad ****, but this was always the true danger to Trump, that he’s an idiot and his greedy self interests would supersede common sense in a bad situation.

[Tami]

I received an e-mail today from the Bernie Sanders campaign today, urging me to make a contribution to Bernie's new charity. The odd thing about the e-mail is that they changed the logo. It no longer reads, "Bernie 2020." It now simply read, "Bernie." Anyone think that means he's considering dropping out of the Democratic Primary?

I just got a text message on my phone from someone with Bernie 2020. So I guess it's still a thing.

[trooper_thorn]

TRUMP 2020 because, eh, ah, hmmm..

If you don't think economic considerations are going to start affecting public policy decisions then you're an idiot.

You can argue about how we go about doing this, which industries should be brought back on first, whether restrictions should be statewide or more localized, etc. but you're going to have to have an idea otherwise people will start doing it themselves.

People have bills to pay, they have businesses that they've built from the ground up that are going to begin failing after a few weeks of inactivity, they have family matters to address and you can only convince them to sit around hiding in their house for so long before they say "**** this".

Simply put, you either get ahead of these obvious issues or you're going to be swamped by them.

[skyvolt2000]

Anyone dismissing the economy and concerns over the effect these lock downs are having on it is whistling past the graveyard.

The economy isn't just massive corporations or banks, hell they'll be the ones most able to weather this. No, it also includes all of those small independent businesses that people here are always pretending to support. It includes restaurants, bars, construction companies, insurance companies, sales people, landlords, farmers, etc. These people are hurting and no federal assistance is going to allow them to survive for more than a few weeks without reopening.

Hell, it's not only just about general economic activity but about other things like simply being able to pay your mortgage/rent/loans.

The longer this goes on the greater the pressure will build and the more likely it will be that states begin lifting their restrictions and anybody refusing to address this is a moron.

If there's not a massive nationwide spike in the number of sick/dead you're going to see this start to occur by roughly Easter.

A LOT of those folks are still at work. Even with the Shelter Plan in Dallas guess what it's hard to tell because most places are OPEN.

If leadership has prepared for this instead of insulting has been quarterbacks and throwing tantrums and putting an entire race of folks in the sights of hate groups and blaming his predecessors-we might be in better shape.

[trooper_thorn]

Oh, and as a simple aside. One of the reasons you don't accept disease tests from just anyone:

China gave the Czech Republic 150K tests for the virus. 80% of the the tests provided false results.

https://twitter.com/akoz33/status/1242329464647925761

[Kirby101]

Oh, and as a simple aside. One of the reasons you don't accept disease tests from just anyone:

China gave the Czech Republic 150K tests for the virus. 80% of the the tests provided false results.

https://twitter.com/akoz33/status/1242329464647925761

We were offered them from WHO, not "just anybody". Trump defenders have the worst talking points.

[JackDaw]

You can either deal with the coronavirus now or you can wait under the guise of “helping the economy”

The key differences are

-most governors will still have a quarantine in place which will still be a net negative on the economy

-the rest of the world isn’t going to say “well America’s batshit so we all will be and engage in commerce again”

-those other countries will likely place more restrictions on travel and shipping with us

-employers and employees still won’t feel confidant having business as usual and people are still going to be hesitant to go to a mall

-the healthcare system will be 100% overwhelmed, things will have to stop again, the economy will crash because we need to take more dire measures because we dig ourselves into a hole and we have less options.

You can either deal with a short term hit now or you can get minimal gains by kicking the can, but in the end it will result in more economic and healthcare devastation.

The rest of the world is in agreement on how to deal with this.

Yes. You can’t afford not to deal sensibly with the virus. Was the Trooper really arguing that anti-virus measures should be soft pedalled??

What I thought he was suggesting is that we can’t ignore taking measures at same time to ensure the economy isn’t permanently damaged.

Effectively Treasury (or its equivalent) should man up, be generous, and take creative measures to protect people’s jobs.

[trooper_thorn]

A LOT of those folks are still at work. Even with the Shelter Plan in Dallas guess what it's hard to tell because most places are OPEN.

Yes a lot of people are still working right now but a whole lot of people are not, just take a look at the explosion in unemployment claims if you want to see the tsunami we're facing.

Every single restaurant in the city I live in is shut down (with some doing takeout), as is every barber shop, theater, sporting arena, museum, and school. The only businesses that are currently open are grocery stores and gas stations. There are millions of people who were laid off for the immediate future and will therefore be unable to pay their bills and mortgages. The proposed payouts by the federal govt. are at best a stop gap but are not a solution for the longer term.

This is a massive issue and ignoring it is just asking for disaster.

I'll repeat my earlier point: Either you provide a plan for bringing the economy back online (benchmarks regarding case numbers, provision of safety materials, focus on particular industries, etc.) in the huge swaths of the country where it's effectively been frozen or the people are going to start doing it themselves.

[trooper_thorn]

Yes. You can’t afford not to deal sensibly with the virus. Was the Trooper really arguing that anti-virus measures should be soft pedalled??

What I thought he was suggesting is that we can’t ignore taking measures at same time to ensure the economy isn’t permanently damaged.

Effectively Treasury (or its equivalent) should man up, be generous, and take creative measures to protect people’s jobs.

That is basically what my point is.

The people stating that we can just have everybody sitting at home until mid to late summer and not face either economic disaster or outright revolt from the people losing their homes/jobs/businesses is ludicrously out of touch with reality.

You either plan to address it ahead of time or you'll be forced to address it.

[trooper_thorn]

We were offered them from WHO, not "just anybody". Trump defenders have the worst talking points.

I was more making fun of China than defending anything regarding Trump. But you do you.

Although you probably should be a bit more wary when citing the WHO:

-On Jan. 14, well after China was aware of the disease the WHO repeated verbatim China's claim that there was no evidence of human to human transmission for the virus: https://twitter.com/WHO/status/12170...on-coronavirus

-On Jan. 28 they praised China's openness with sharing information despite the despite the fact they spent roughly a month arresting people who spoke up about the virus: https://www.who.int/news-room/detail...virus-outbreak

-It's also led by a man who helped cover up at least three different cholera epidemics while health minister in Ethiopia: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/13/h...outbreaks.html

[Mister Mets]

Sounds like the so-called "death panel" scenario Republicans screamed bloody murder about when the ACA came into law. Now you have assclowns like Rep. Dan Patrick saying grandparents should sacrifice themselves and die for the good of the market. So much for the GOP being the "pro life" party.



That figures to be the next domino to fall, resulting in a frightening bump in cases: people who don't know they have a time bomb inside until it's too late and they've already infected scores of people before they get sick.

With "death panels" there seemed to be two contradictory counterarguments from the left. One was that it was an outrageous slander, something that would never be done in government-run healthcare, and that conservatives were wrong to be concerned about it. The other argument was that it poisoned the well against something inevitable and necessary, and conservatives were wrong to talk about it now.

The concern from the right on "death panels" was that it was going to be the norm. One potential mistake in current political discussions is to look at policy solutions under an extraordinary circumstance and believe that this is what would be done under all circumstances. The choices at a time of ventilator/ ICU shortages or when a good chunk of the workforce is not allowed to work are different than the choices we would make under most circumstances.

There are three main ways to allocate finite resources. We could have a first come, first serve system where it goes to whoever asked first. We could also have an open market system where the use of these items is auctioned off to the highest bidder. Finally, we could have what can be seen as "death panels," where doctors determine what's going to save the most lives. Does anyone here prefer the alternatives?

[Gray Lensman]

With "death panels" there seemed to be two contradictory counterarguments from the left. One was that it was an outrageous slander, something that would never be done in government-run healthcare, and that conservatives were wrong to be concerned about it. The other argument was that it poisoned the well against something inevitable and necessary, and conservatives were wrong to talk about it now.

The concern from the right on "death panels" was that it was going to be the norm. One potential mistake in current political discussions is to look at policy solutions under an extraordinary circumstance and believe that this is what would be done under all circumstances. The choices at a time of ventilator/ ICU shortages or when a good chunk of the workforce is not allowed to work are different than the choices we would make under most circumstances.

There are three main ways to allocate finite resources. We could have a first come, first serve system where it goes to whoever asked first. We could also have an open market system where the use of these items is auctioned off to the highest bidder. Finally, we could have what can be seen as "death panels," where doctors determine what's going to save the most lives. Does anyone here prefer the alternatives?

I would say that with insurance companies often prioritizing profit over care that we already have death panels, and they are operating under a 4th system worse than any of the three you have mentioned, because the rationing happens even when there isn't a shortage in supply.

[Jack Dracula]

Just eneure any business bailout will include language ensuring that the employees get money. Otherwise I see a few of the corporations just pocketing everything.

I'd feel much better if the CEOs of any Fortune 500 corporations receiving a bailout would forego their multi-million dollar salaries as well.

[Gray Lensman]

I'd feel much better if the CEOs of any Fortune 500 corporations receiving a bailout would forego their multi-million dollar salaries as well.

True - I believe the bank bailout forced executives to forgo bonuses until it was repaid - if the government has to step in and save the banks, then the corner office crowd has obviously failed, and people who fail don't typically get paid for it. Unless they have corner offices, barring a forced injection of reality.