All purpose news and politics thread part v: The quickening

[Tazirai]

Who counts as a progressive in your eyes? Is there any Senator, Governor or former Obama cabinet official? What members of Congress count?

What has Nina Turner done that is so exceptional that Biden should select a former state senator who lost a race for minor statewide office by a two to one margin?

Barbara Lee
Maxine Waters
Mark Pocan
Ro Khana
Pramila Jayapal
Keith Ellison
Lynn Woolsey
Raúl Grijalva
Bernie Sanders
Ted Lieu
Alma Adams from NC
Jan Schakowsky
Jamie Raskin
Brendan Boyle from Philly
Lacy Clay
AOC
Ilhan Omar

Are a few...

Governor? Mine, Roy Cooper.
Obama Official? Can't name many outside of Kal Pen

Nina Turner was a progressive fighter in Ohio and helped the black community there since If you've never been to Ohio, the black community wasn't/isn't very well represented outside of certain places.
She ran for state secretary and lost... soo. People lose elections all the time. Then come back and win. She chose not to run again.

Her loss was actually 59 to 36, not really two to one. Also again Ohio, she had a lot of big money against her.

Why is it so hard for folks here to understand that most times whoever has the most money wins. Not everytime, but most. She also ran against an entrenched Republican.

Didn't Abrams lose?

I donated to her, and supported her run, but once I learned she took money from Bloomberg, I'm good. Call me a purist. But I don't think using the money of a racist to fight racism is good.

If you think so, I'm happy for you. I won't support corruption anymore. They need to earn my vote.

[Tazirai]

Russian Agent Tulsi Gabbard made sure to litigate her “issues” during the primary by misrepresenting a record that showed an overall reduction in marijuana arrests (she, after all, can’t suddenly make a Schedule One drug legal, especially when the state had maintained its illegality). This idea that Harris is a horrible person and “out to get” people is exactly why people have come to bemoan purity tests.

Looks like slander against a sitting Congresswoman and Member of the US Armed forces.
As a Vet this post disgusts me, are you sure you want to go there, or do you have proof she's an agent of a foreign nation?

[Tazirai]

She’s not for Biden. Which is why Taz said her. The point in selecting a progressive would be to make an olive branch so that the Sanders voters who are rebelling right now will come back in the fold. If that’s the road they are going to go down then the only one who really fits the bill is Turner because it’s spot where Biden is knowingly ceding some capital in his admin to Sanders ideology in a way that will be seen as an act of good faith by the people who probably were going to be a thorn in Biden’s side otherwise.

Taz is making the point that if your progressive olive branch is going to be someone like Abrams or Harris it’s not going to accomplish the entire point of a bringing a progressive on the ticket.

It’s kind of like this. Palin was inconvenient for McCain, but she brought a small town far right sensibility to his campaign. For voters who loved Obama, bringing in Biden at the time wasn’t anything exciting. He was an old guard white guy who was part of the status quo they were trying to move into a new future away from. But picking Biden wasn’t about appealing to those people. It was about pacifying older white voters that were nervous about a young black President promising changeand it was a “wink wink calm down the old white elder statesman who’s been around forever will be in the room too”.

It’s the balancing act thing. If that’s the angle you are going for, then it’s about making the VP someone who is a concession from your camp and a dog whistle to say “don’t worry, your voice will be in the room fighting too”. Turner fits that. AOC fits that.

And if you aren’t really going to commit to that, then it’s a waste of time and you should just go for straight political strategy and that’s where someone like Whitmer would be useful.

It’s just a matter of what your goal is with the pick. If you are looking for a progressive to unify the party, some people are going to be seen as a true act of good faith and some are just going to be viewed as set pieces.

[TheDarman]

You're kidding around, right?

Nope. Other than the “Russian Agent Tulsi Gabbard” stuff.

[numberthirty]

Nope. Other than the “Russian Agent Tulsi Gabbard” stuff.

If that's actually the case, you are either...

- Unaware

or

- Turning A Blind Eye

[Tendrin]

I used to like stacy and now I don't is that okay? Or, can I not have an opinion om my preferred choice, regardless of how many people she got registered in GA. Nina and her movement have gotten more people to sign up to vote for the first time and to come back to your party, or is that not valid enough?

I mean, I didn't say you can't have an opinion. I just don't think your opinion is terribly good on this. There's no way Nina Turner can be a viable VP candidate. If you're looking for an olive branch to progressives, you need to look elsewhere. Tuner has in no way earned that and Abrams has certainly done more for the party in registering voters than Turner has. If Turner was so great at it, Bernie wouldn't be losing because all those voters would have frigging voted.

[TheDarman]

Looks like slander against a sitting Congresswoman and Member of the US Armed forces.
As a Vet this post disgusts me, are you sure you want to go there, or do you have proof she's an agent of a foreign nation?

Admittedly, that was the only part of my post I intended as tongue-in-cheek.

Sorry if I offended you in my criticism of a woman who made INSANELY homophobic comments as recently as 2015 and actively defends a dictator that gassed his own people.

[Tendrin]

Admittedly, that was the only part of my post I intended as tongue-in-cheek.

Sorry if I offended you in my criticism of a woman who made INSANELY homophobic comments as recently as 2015 and actively defends a dictator that gassed his own people.

The root of her support of dictators is her anti-Muslim bigotry, too.

[TheDarman]

If that's actually the case, you are either...

- Unaware

or

- Turning A Blind Eye

Neither. I’ve looked at the record realistically as to what a DA and AG can and can’t do. Remember how angry we all get about Barr completely disregarding laws to protect Trump? Do we really want to support a Democrat making similar moves in a similarly limited position? They can set priorities, but can’t change the law. Any idea that they can is completely vindicating Barr as the AG.

[numberthirty]

Neither. I’ve looked at the record realistically as to what a DA and AG can and can’t do. Remember how angry we all get about Barr completely disregarding laws to protect Trump? Do we really want to support a Democrat making similar moves in a similarly limited position? They can set priorities, but can’t change the law. Any idea that they can is completely vindicating Barr as the AG.

To point out the obvious without actually going after all of the garbage in her record...

Either or those positions can actually comply with an order from a Federal Judge.

[TheDarman]

To point out the obvious without actually going after all of the garbage in her record...

Either or those positions can actually comply with an order from a Federal Judge.

We’re talking about one thing that was not ever risen to her office if any of the properly primary-sourced accounts are to be believed. Got it.

[numberthirty]

We’re talking about one thing that was not ever risen to her office if any of the properly primary-sourced accounts are to be believed. Got it.

You're talking like any of that will be a halfway passable excuse if you put it in front of an American voter.

Never mind that it is just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to what even remotely competent opposition research will put together on her.

Can you make an attempt at explaining all of it away?

Sure.

You could also try making your life a little less difficult, and draft a VP without any of those potential issues. One that had a base that got the further than dropping out first might not hurt either.

[Mister Mets]

Barbara Lee
Maxine Waters
Mark Pocan
Ro Khana
Pramila Jayapal
Keith Ellison
Lynn Woolsey
Raúl Grijalva
Bernie Sanders
Ted Lieu
Alma Adams from NC
Jan Schakowsky
Jamie Raskin
Brendan Boyle from Philly
Lacy Clay
AOC
Ilhan Omar

Are a few...

Governor? Mine, Roy Cooper.
Obama Official? Can't name many outside of Kal Pen

Nina Turner was a progressive fighter in Ohio and helped the black community there since If you've never been to Ohio, the black community wasn't/isn't very well represented outside of certain places.
She ran for state secretary and lost... soo. People lose elections all the time. Then come back and win. She chose not to run again.

Her loss was actually 59 to 36, not really two to one. Also again Ohio, she had a lot of big money against her.

Why is it so hard for folks here to understand that most times whoever has the most money wins. Not everytime, but most. She also ran against an entrenched Republican.

Didn't Abrams lose?

I donated to her, and supported her run, but once I learned she took money from Bloomberg, I'm good. Call me a purist. But I don't think using the money of a racist to fight racism is good.

If you think so, I'm happy for you. I won't support corruption anymore. They need to earn my vote.

Personally, I think Abrams is a poor choice due to her inexperience, but she lost much more narrowly than Turner, running for a more prominent office, and she has become a top advocate for election reform.

The role of money is probably overrated. Clinton outspent Trump by a lot. Fivethirtyeight did look at the evidence extensively, and while candidates who spend more money win, they typically have the money because they were favorites.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features...ed-love-story/

Some of the people you like wouldn't be potential candidates for national office. Omar was born outside the country. Lynn Woolsey is 82. Ted Lieu was born in Taiwan. Jayapal was born in India, and came to the country as a teenager. Maxine Waters is 81.

I'm curious about Roy Cooper, who seems to be a mainstream Democrat. Are you more familiar with what he's done as a resident of his state? Is it possible that typical Democratic Governors could impress you to the same state, or are you aware of attributes that make him exceptional compared to others?

[Tendrin]

We’re talking about one thing that was not ever risen to her office if any of the properly primary-sourced accounts are to be believed. Got it.

Thirty likes to assign *everything* that happened in that particular office to Harris, showing a plain misunderstanding of how DA's offices actually work.

[Mister Mets]

She’s not for Biden. Which is why Taz said her. The point in selecting a progressive would be to make an olive branch so that the Sanders voters who are rebelling right now will come back in the fold. If that’s the road they are going to go down then the only one who really fits the bill is Turner because it’s spot where Biden is knowingly ceding some capital in his admin to Sanders ideology in a way that will be seen as an act of good faith by the people who probably were going to be a thorn in Biden’s side otherwise.

Taz is making the point that if your progressive olive branch is going to be someone like Abrams or Harris it’s not going to accomplish the entire point of a bringing a progressive on the ticket.

It’s kind of like this. Palin was inconvenient for McCain, but she brought a small town far right sensibility to his campaign. For voters who loved Obama, bringing in Biden at the time wasn’t anything exciting. He was an old guard white guy who was part of the status quo they were trying to move into a new future away from. But picking Biden wasn’t about appealing to those people. It was about pacifying older white voters that were nervous about a young black President promising changeand it was a “wink wink calm down the old white elder statesman who’s been around forever will be in the room too”.

It’s the balancing act thing. If that’s the angle you are going for, then it’s about making the VP someone who is a concession from your camp and a dog whistle to say “don’t worry, your voice will be in the room fighting too”. Turner fits that. AOC fits that.

And if you aren’t really going to commit to that, then it’s a waste of time and you should just go for straight political strategy and that’s where someone like Whitmer would be useful.

It’s just a matter of what your goal is with the pick. If you are looking for a progressive to unify the party, some people are going to be seen as a true act of good faith and some are just going to be viewed as set pieces.

I understand that some Democrats see progressive as code for aligned with Sanders. But that's got to be explicitly stated, so that others aren't wasting their time looking at policy, or accomplishments.

You're talking like any of that will be a halfway passable excuse if you put it in front of an American voter.

Never mind that it is just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to what even remotely competent opposition research will put together on her.

Can you make an attempt at explaining all of it away?

Sure.

You could also try making your life a little less difficult, and draft a VP without any of those potential issues. One that had a base that got the further than dropping out first might not hurt either.

Who comes to mind?