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  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by spirit2011 View Post
    I think in this case completely justified. It completely made her lose the control of the force she had.
    And the force kills everything that stop revolution, a person out of control couldn't stop it.

    and she killed herself because she couldn't imagine live with it
    It sounds like you make excuses for characters you like and then history should matter but it shouldn't matter if it is someone you don't. Whether she was out of control or not that was still Jean in mind and as such she is a murderer. There is no two ways about it. I'm sure the families of those murdered don't care any more about her being under the influence than you do the retcons for Emma's past. Especially given the entire situation with Jean was a retcon and as such it was Jean herself that commited the genocide.
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  2. #47
    Extraordinary Member spirit2011's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jwatson View Post
    It sounds like you make excuses for characters you like and then history should matter but it shouldn't matter if it is someone you don't. Whether she was out of control or not that was still Jean in mind and as such she is a murderer. There is no two ways about it. I'm sure the families of those murdered don't care any more about her being under the influence than you do the retcons for Emma's past. Especially given the entire situation with Jean was a retcon and as such it was Jean herself that commited the genocide.
    Context matters. That is why some people get less time jail for murder or it even become manslaughter
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  3. #48
    Extraordinary Member TheCape's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jwatson View Post
    It sounds like you make excuses for characters you like and then history should matter but it shouldn't matter if it is someone you don't. Whether she was out of control or not that was still Jean in mind and as such she is a murderer. There is no two ways about it. I'm sure the families of those murdered don't care any more about her being under the influence than you do the retcons for Emma's past. Especially given the entire situation with Jean was a retcon and as such it was Jean herself that commited the genocide.
    Marvel already absolved her, it wasn't Jean. It was a clone of Jean (yeah, i know retcon, but that's canon explanation and as far as i know Marvel hasn't backed away from it), if we start to blame her for that, then Peter Parker is responsible for Kaine murders on his years stalking Ben Reilly and i think that everyone would agreed than that is a ridiculous claim to make.
    "Wow. You made Spider-Man sad, congratulations. I stabbed The Hulk last week"
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  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by spirit2011 View Post
    Context matters. That is why some people get less time jail for murder or it even become manslaughter
    But context doesn't matter to you because you said everything that happened to Emma was a eetcon. Jean not being the one to directly kill billions of people was also a eetcon. So in context of how you present things both should be seen as villian's and if it's thrown in jeans face everyday she's a murderer it is an aspect of the character.
    Don't let anyone else hold the candle that lights the way to your future because only you can sustain the flame.

  5. #50
    Extraordinary Member spirit2011's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jwatson View Post
    But context doesn't matter to you because you said everything that happened to Emma was a eetcon. Jean not being the one to directly kill billions of people was also a eetcon. So in context of how you present things both should be seen as villian's and if it's thrown in jeans face everyday she's a murderer it is an aspect of the character.
    because Jean didn't made a plan to get phoenix and commit mass murders.
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  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by spirit2011 View Post
    because Jean didn't made a plan to get phoenix and commit mass murders.
    Intent doesn't matter. Your whole argument on Emma was characters should still be mad at her because they suffered at her hands and she's a villian. Well characters suffered at Jean's hands and billions died so in essence in the marvel universe she should be seen as a villian as well since the only thing that fleshed either of them out was a retcon.
    Don't let anyone else hold the candle that lights the way to your future because only you can sustain the flame.

  7. #52
    Extraordinary Member spirit2011's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jwatson View Post
    Intent doesn't matter. Your whole argument on Emma was characters should still be mad at her because they suffered at her hands and she's a villian. Well characters suffered at Jean's hands and billions died so in essence in the marvel universe she should be seen as a villian as well since the only thing that fleshed either of them out was a retcon.
    Intent matters. If a person causes a death without intention it is manslaughter at max

    Jean had no control because she was abused.
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  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by spirit2011 View Post
    Intent matters. If a person causes a death without intention it is manslaughter at max

    Jean had no control because she was abused.
    That doesn't make any sense to me given your stance on Emma so i'm just going to let it go. It just feels like pure bias and there is no real way around that. Retcon doesn't absolve a character or it does. Your the context itself in this case not the story or situation.
    Don't let anyone else hold the candle that lights the way to your future because only you can sustain the flame.

  9. #54
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    Jean certainly is the Dark Phoenix at the time if you take generations in consideration. Jeen didn't feel that she was meeting Madelyn but the og Jean. That would mean there's no difference between the two versions of jean which makes it bonkers completely. Just shows Marvel can't decide if Jean was or wasn't the Dark Phoenix at the time.

  10. #55
    Extraordinary Member spirit2011's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Desmark View Post
    Jean certainly is the Dark Phoenix at the time if you take generations in consideration. Jeen didn't feel that she was meeting Madelyn but the og Jean. That would mean there's no difference between the two versions of jean which makes it bonkers completely. Just shows Marvel can't decide if Jean was or wasn't the Dark Phoenix at the time.
    Well she was, but not really.
    part od her sould was with phoenix
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  11. #56
    Astonishing Member Nick Miller's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tuck frump View Post
    When did Jean pay for comitting genocide?
    Broccoli people dont effin count!!!😡

  12. #57
    Astonishing Member Nick Miller's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by powerpax View Post
    Nice guy with some nice/bad ideas and largely bland execution.
    His Xbooks were pretty good reads .

    Except for the Land issues, which were crap comics because of the art,

  13. #58
    Astonishing Member Factor's Avatar
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    I'm surprised HIX-men was a thing that long ago.
    Bunn sounds really bitter, which is surprising, because he got to tell years of X-men stories.
    It's not like his run was cancelled after 5 issues. I can understand being frustrated at editorial edicts, but he got a good opportunity nonetheless.

  14. #59
    Astonishing Member Silver Fang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Factor View Post
    I'm surprised HIX-men was a thing that long ago.
    Bunn sounds really bitter, which is surprising, because he got to tell years of X-men stories.
    It's not like his run was cancelled after 5 issues. I can understand being frustrated at editorial edicts, but he got a good opportunity nonetheless.
    A good run where none of his stuff matters & he didn't even get the 100% freedom Rosenberg got yo tell the stories he wanted that weren't gonna matter later. Lol

    I don't blame him for saltiness.

  15. #60
    Mighty Member Veitha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silver Fang View Post
    A good run where none of his stuff matters & he didn't even get the 100% freedom Rosenberg got yo tell the stories he wanted that weren't gonna matter later. Lol

    I don't blame him for saltiness.
    The IvX forced crossover would have pissed me off too. He had to give up entire issues for that crap. Same goes for Gillen being interruptes by AvX.

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