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  1. #16
    Silver Sentinel BeastieRunner's Avatar
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    Ageing them up fixes a lot of issues IMHO. Keep her older, though. I liked that.

    He should be nearly trained and ready to leave Qui-gon when Obi takes over his training (both are friends/rivals) which leads to his resentment of Obi. Age up Obi, too.

    I think if everyone is older and more established, it fixes a lot of the problems, romance included.
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  2. #17
    Oni of the Ash Moon Ronin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slowpokeking View Post
    I don't think it's just 1 movie's fault. We have to connect all 3 well.
    I think that one of the points that the "lover story" part was kind of jammed into one movie with so much else going on it really felt forced into the story.

    The age difference does play a bit into it too. On of the first things that Padme's says to him is that he will always be that little boy...eww. It's like the baby sitter coming back to marry the kid she was taking care of.
    If they were closer to the same age in Ep. I then maybe they could have some more meaning full screen time together that could make a base for Ep. II rather than creepy stalker Anakin and cheesy lines, that dialogue did not help any.
    The whole I didn't like you but now I do happened in Ep. IV with Han and Leia and really it seemed like was retried of it here with out the same effect. Lucas should have really gotten a different screen writer and director, ones that really deal in this type of story telling.
    The romance was treated as a sub plot when in actuality it should have been treated as the main focus as it is the reason that Anakin goes all dark side. But the biggest thing that it needed was better screen writhing, dialogue, direction and a cast that had better on screen chemistry.
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  3. #18
    Astonishing Member ChrisIII's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Totoro Man View Post

    perhaps the bigger problem is that nobody else in the universe appears to have noticed what was going on. I mean, I guess you could argue that Obi Wan kept it a secret - but mostly he appears to have been completely oblivious.
    There's a deleted scene from ROTS where Obi-Wan visits Padme earlier on in the story; this scene is referred to in the finished film. Basically Obi-Wan and Padme are worried about Anakin's mood, and Obi-Wan says that he knows there's something going on between her and Anakin, but he won't tell the council.


    There also seems to be some subtle hints that Yoda also knows that something's not quite right in both AOTC and ROTS but that's never really confirmed.
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  4. #19
    Incredible Member Slowpokeking's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moon Ronin View Post
    I think that one of the points that the "lover story" part was kind of jammed into one movie with so much else going on it really felt forced into the story.

    The age difference does play a bit into it too. On of the first things that Padme's says to him is that he will always be that little boy...eww. It's like the baby sitter coming back to marry the kid she was taking care of.
    If they were closer to the same age in Ep. I then maybe they could have some more meaning full screen time together that could make a base for Ep. II rather than creepy stalker Anakin and cheesy lines, that dialogue did not help any.
    The whole I didn't like you but now I do happened in Ep. IV with Han and Leia and really it seemed like was retried of it here with out the same effect. Lucas should have really gotten a different screen writer and director, ones that really deal in this type of story telling.
    The romance was treated as a sub plot when in actuality it should have been treated as the main focus as it is the reason that Anakin goes all dark side. But the biggest thing that it needed was better screen writhing, dialogue, direction and a cast that had better on screen chemistry.
    Yes, it could be written well with the age in EP I, but Lucas obviously doesn't have such skill. And his dialog was terrible.

    Han and Leia was poorly written as well, simply due to the actor's performance it was praised, and it didn't play a big part in the story.

  5. #20
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    The first thing that would need to be done is to have someone else write the dialogue. Lucas was always weak at dialogue and especially romantic dialogue.

    The second thing I would do is ditch the will-they/won't they plot. As a prequel we know they're going to get together, so there's no tension there. What we needed was to see the love that was destroyed by the war and Palpatine's machinations to emphasize the tragedy when Anakin fell. Also make Anakin less of a whiny brat and more mature. Episode 2 spent far too much time foreshadowing Vader rather than showing Anakin as a good person whose fall was tragic. Padme is stated to be a rulebreaker in the movie but not really shown to be one. Change that around and have this forbidden romance being her way of all the pomp and regulations of political life where she can just be herself with no expectations.

  6. #21
    Oni of the Ash Moon Ronin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slowpokeking View Post
    Yes, it could be written well with the age in EP I, but Lucas obviously doesn't have such skill. And his dialog was terrible.

    Han and Leia was poorly written as well, simply due to the actor's performance it was praised, and it didn't play a big part in the story.
    I don't think that the Han and Leia romance was done that poorly. It actually as progression that spans all three movies and was fairly believable. It wasn't a major part of the story because it didn't need to be, on the other hand the one between Anakin and Padme needed to be a huge part of the story but really wasn't. It was as if Lucas couldn't make his mind up if he wanted the prequels to be about the fall of Anakin Skywalker or the rise of the Emperor.

    Quote Originally Posted by sunofdarkchild View Post
    The first thing that would need to be done is to have someone else write the dialogue. Lucas was always weak at dialogue and especially romantic dialogue.

    The second thing I would do is ditch the will-they/won't they plot. As a prequel we know they're going to get together, so there's no tension there. What we needed was to see the love that was destroyed by the war and Palpatine's machinations to emphasize the tragedy when Anakin fell. Also make Anakin less of a whiny brat and more mature. Episode 2 spent far too much time foreshadowing Vader rather than showing Anakin as a good person whose fall was tragic. Padme is stated to be a rulebreaker in the movie but not really shown to be one. Change that around and have this forbidden romance being her way of all the pomp and regulations of political life where she can just be herself with no expectations.
    It was hard to like Anakin, he was an angry winey kid that liked to hit things with a lazar sword. Also when he told her his political stance (I like dictators cause plot) and that he murdered women and children, she is all like yep this is the guy that I'm gonna marry! When Obi-Wan told her in Ep. 3 that he saw video of him killing kids... It was almost like "yep that's my Ani lol"... So yea I would agree that the poor develop of Anakin where it seemed like he was kind of bad all this time never made the "fall" feel tragic.
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  7. #22
    Incredible Member Slowpokeking's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moon Ronin View Post
    I don't think that the Han and Leia romance was done that poorly. It actually as progression that spans all three movies and was fairly believable. It wasn't a major part of the story because it didn't need to be, on the other hand the one between Anakin and Padme needed to be a huge part of the story but really wasn't. It was as if Lucas couldn't make his mind up if he wanted the prequels to be about the fall of Anakin Skywalker or the rise of the Emperor.
    It wasn't as bad as Anakin and Padme, but still poorly if you remove Harrison Ford's performance and chemistry.

  8. #23
    Anyone. Anywhere.Anytime. Arsenal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slowpokeking View Post
    It wasn't enough at all. EP II had its own fault of course.

    Shmi's death should be in the first one so EP II's emotion could all focus on Anakin and Padme, which was a big reason why this romance didn't go well.
    I might of misspoke. I don’t believe that the events demonstrated in EP 1 alone were enough to create a special bond between them but I would have bought that it was enough to lay the groundwork for something special to form over the years. Which is why I feel George’s decision to not have them interact at all during the 10 year gap was a poor one because it retroactively places a huge burden on TPM that it had no chance of fulfilling.

    I do agree that the “will they/won’t they” approach wasn’t the right one either. The only thing that needed to be asked was when (not if) they’ll become a couple and I think their story would’ve greatly benefited from leaning into that. George had a lot of good ideas but made some creative decisions along the way that made his job so much harder than it needed to be.

  9. #24
    Ultimate Member Gray Lensman's Avatar
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    Recast Anakin. Portman had already been cast, but the pair had no chemistry together, at least not on screen.
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  10. #25
    Astonishing Member WillieMorgan's Avatar
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    You can almost hold up the Padme/Anakin 'romance' as a kind of exemplar for the faults of the Prequel Trilogy overall. They've come to symbolise those movies' larger flaws for me. In fact, I consider it to be one of the worst executed love stories ever attempted by anyone in Hollywood.

    The Prequel Trilogy doesn't work for me full stop. Not because of any preconceived fan expectations or letdowns, this notion of them 'ruining my chilldhood' is just bollocks, but because the feelings that they evoke from me are the polar opposite from what I'm sure Lucas intended. When the films are attempting to be deep and topical they just seem ham-fisted and flat. When they are trying to be funny I'm almost squirming with embarrassment. I can't imagine anyone over the age of, say, 6 years old feeling any different. Ditto the 'forbidden love' plot that is actually very central to the movies' overall narrative. It's just too awkward, clumsy and occasionally creepy for it to have the impact on me that was undoubtedly intended. If only Lucas had had the foresight to bring in outside help in certain areas of the films' development. Areas such as the dialogue and coach acting that he's long been shown to be lacking in but got away with with the Classic Trilogy.

    How to fix it? Well, many elements are so toe-curlingly bad that it's a tall order whatever you attempt. There was no chemistry between the actors and even if there had been Lucas was the least likely director in Hollywood to squeeze good performances out of them. The age difference between the characters makes the progression of the story seem creepy in places and then there's the dialogue. The 'I hate sand' scene is particularly painful to watch. With better dialogue, an acting coach that could have managed better performances out of actors that at times seemed to visibly struggle to deliver their lines, or even different actors themsleves, you may have had a vaguely convincing romance. It just wasn't to be.
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  11. #26
    Astonishing Member ChrisIII's Avatar
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    Regarding outside help, Lucas did have a co-writer for AOTC and Tom Stoppard did some polishes on the script for ROTS. I've read Lawrence Kasdan and Carrie Fisher were consulted on TPM's script but didn't really do that much.


    Hales was a bit more of a yes-man but Stoppard was more of a big deal. Both had worked with Lucas on Indiana Jones; Hales wrote several episodes of the TV show, while Stoppard put the final polish on "Last Crusade".




    "Clone Wars" also makes the romance work a bit better as well, but I think that's in part because the portrayal of Anakin is not only acted better (voice only, but still less monotone than Hayden's) but he's written to be somewhat more likeable, although with still a bit of darkness under the surface, and it adds a bit more to his downfall, such as his jealousy against a suitor of Padme's and also building on his disillusionment with the Jedi Order (The whole thing with Ashoka) .
    Last edited by ChrisIII; 10-23-2019 at 04:56 PM.
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  12. #27
    Astonishing Member WillieMorgan's Avatar
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    Lucas may have brought in outside help but they really can't have been much more than yes-men. No professional screenwriter would ever lend their name to something as unremittingly corny as the 'So love has blinded you...' scene from ROTS. To be frank, it sounds like it was written by a teenager. Don't get me wrong. It's Star Wars. I'm not expecting Oscar-quality scripts. Just not dialogue that makes some people want to eat their own shoes.

    When I mentioned help I was really thinking about someone that could have truly brought out the best in the films in the same way that Steven Spielberg did with the original Indiana Jones trilogy. Had Spielberg been brought in to help develop the Prequel Trilogy I'm sure it would have turned out much better.
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  13. #28
    Oni of the Ash Moon Ronin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisIII View Post
    "Clone Wars" also makes the romance work a bit better as well, but I think that's in part because the portrayal of Anakin is not only acted better (voice only, but still less monotone than Hayden's) but he's written to be somewhat more likeable, although with still a bit of darkness under the surface, and it adds a bit more to his downfall, such as his jealousy against a suitor of Padme's and also building on his disillusionment with the Jedi Order (The whole thing with Ashoka) .
    I would agree that the Clone Wars did help but with only really a fraction of the audience that watched it really doesn't mean much to the large amount of people that only watch a movie. Most people don't like it when "of if you read this book, or watch this series then it will make more since" Most people don't want to do home work to watch and enjoy a movie.
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  14. #29
    Astonishing Member ChrisIII's Avatar
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    Spielberg did do an animatic for a much more elaborate General Greivous wheel chase, which would've involved his wheel grinding up clone troopers and stuff, but it was ultimately rejected. There's a few videos of him visiting the TPM set but I don't think he offered any advice. He has some trouble with the battle droid prop (used to stand in for the CG on set in some scenes I think), it's kind of funny.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Ww0b49w3EY


    Some think Hales and Stoppard mainly helped with the Obi-Wan stuff, which was probably the highlight of the last two movies, since Ewan was kind of wasted for much of Episode I, sidelined in favor of Qui-Gon.
    Last edited by ChrisIII; 10-24-2019 at 08:57 AM.
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  15. #30
    Incredible Member chachi's Avatar
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    They don't see each other for 10 years and spend what 5 days together and decide to get married. Plus the fact that Anakin lust after Padme from the time he was 8 till they meet again when he is 18 is what I find humorous.

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