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  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jackalope89 View Post
    How about having her NOT be a vampire in the first place?
    TOO LATE!

    At least for what happened in New 52.

    Rebirth, however, can redo anything they want.

  2. #17
    Incredible Member Bat-Meal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Korath View Post
    Why so ? Vampires and rape or at least the sexual act have been linked for a long time now.
    The story-line was pointless, and achieved little, other than to upset a number of Batwoman fans (who were already upset after the previous writers quit, over creative differences with editorial). She went from proposing to Maggie, to getting raped by a vampire. Surely writers can come up with a better use for Nocturna than that.

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bat-Meal View Post
    The story-line was pointless, and achieved little, other than to upset a number of Batwoman fans (who were already upset after the previous writers quit, over creative differences with editorial). She went from proposing to Maggie, to getting raped by a vampire. Surely writers can come up with a better use for Nocturna than that.
    The Nocturna / Vampire angle originated from a planned plot from for Batman: the Animated Series, to have her bite Batman, and Batman stalking Gotham nights.

    It was rejected, however apparently made enough of an impression to a later team later.

    https://dcanimated.com/WF/sections/b...n/nocturna.php

  4. #19
    Incredible Member Bat-Meal's Avatar
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    Yeah, that's not what happened.

    Unless you want count the non-cannon Future's End one-shot (which was garbage by the way) - Nocturna got to brainwash Batwoman for months.

    BatwomanNocturna1.jpg

    BatwomanNocturna2.jpg

    Nocturna_Batwoman.jpg
    Last edited by Bat-Meal; 10-26-2019 at 06:03 AM.

  5. #20
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bat-Meal View Post
    Yeah, that's not what happened.

    Unless you want count the non-cannon Future's End one-shot (which was garbage by the way) - Nocturna got to brainwash Batwoman for months.

    BatwomanNocturna1.jpg

    BatwomanNocturna2.jpg

    Nocturna_Batwoman.jpg
    Kinda wondering what those guys are thinking starting at them...

  6. #21
    Extraordinary Member Celgress's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    Kinda wondering what those guys are thinking starting at them...
    As am I, oh well...
    "So you've come to the end now alive but dead inside."

  7. #22
    Extraordinary Member Celgress's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bat-Meal View Post
    The story-line was pointless, and achieved little, other than to upset a number of Batwoman fans (who were already upset after the previous writers quit, over creative differences with editorial). She went from proposing to Maggie, to getting raped by a vampire. Surely writers can come up with a better use for Nocturna than that.
    Because for some reason Kate getting brainwashed & raped by a vampire, being turned into said vampire's mind slave is better than her having a healthy relationship with her future Wife. Happy characters are a no-no but sexual mind slaves are a-okay. Damn, sometimes I'm appalled by how messed up comic book editorial departments can be.
    Last edited by Celgress; 10-26-2019 at 03:48 PM.
    "So you've come to the end now alive but dead inside."

  8. #23
    Incredible Member Bat-Meal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Celgress View Post
    Because for some reason Kate getting brainwashed & raped by a vampire, being turned into said vampire's mind slave is better than her having a healthy relationship with her future Wife. Happy characters are a no-no but sexual mind slaves are a-okay. Damn, sometimes I'm appalled by how messed up comic book editorial departments can be.
    Yes, well, this is why it would be best if they retcon what happened - for both characters.

  9. #24
    Extraordinary Member Jackalope89's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bat-Meal View Post
    Yes, well, this is why it would be best if they retcon what happened - for both characters.
    I can go with that.

    Kate never met Nocturna, and thus that arc never happened. And Nocturna was never a vampire, but met Jason and Bruce when Jason was Robin, and liked him as a son. But she had a tumultuous relationship overall with Bruce and Jason, due to being a petty thief or something similar, due to coming from Crime Alley. Like Jason. Making Jason reluctant to go after her as Robin.

    Okay, I kind of went overboard there...

  10. #25
    Fantastic Member Ulysses's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Celgress View Post
    Because for some reason Kate getting brainwashed & raped by a vampire, being turned into said vampire's mind slave is better than her having a healthy relationship with her future Wife. Happy characters are a no-no but sexual mind slaves are a-okay. Damn, sometimes I'm appalled by how messed up comic book editorial departments can be.
    My guess is editorial thinks drama sells. But I suppose Kate being in a stable relationship can still be dramatized via external threats. A la Peter Parker and Mary Jane.
    “To the future or to the past. To a time when thought is free, when men are different from one another and do not live alone - to a time when truth exists and what is done cannot be undone: from the age of uniformity, from the age of solitude, from the age of Big Brother, from the age of doublethink - greetings!" - Winston Smith

  11. #26
    Mighty Member Tzigone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ulysses View Post
    My guess is editorial thinks drama sells. But I suppose Kate being in a stable relationship can still be dramatized via external threats. A la Peter Parker and Mary Jane.
    Yeah, well, we all know how much they wanted to break up that couple. I know comics are part soap-opera, really. But the older I get, the less patience I have for either relationship merry-go-rounds (everyone on team dating each other), constant break-up-make-up, and constant angst and misery. I miss the threats and problems being mostly external, with only a small part relationship-oriented. But maybe that's just an age thing, and I know publishers are looking for a younger market than I am. I actually liked a fair bit of this kind of thing into my twenties (the bad continuity I wore out on much younger). But if this sort of thing actually drives up sales - especially in the teen and 20s market - then I guess it's what we'll get.

  12. #27
    Extraordinary Member Celgress's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ulysses View Post
    My guess is editorial thinks drama sells. But I suppose Kate being in a stable relationship can still be dramatized via external threats. A la Peter Parker and Mary Jane.
    Perhaps, but I still contend the Nocturna stuff was in very poor taste especially coming on the heels of Kate/Maggie.
    "So you've come to the end now alive but dead inside."

  13. #28
    Caperucita Roja Zaresh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jackalope89 View Post
    I can go with that.

    Kate never met Nocturna, and thus that arc never happened. And Nocturna was never a vampire, but met Jason and Bruce when Jason was Robin, and liked him as a son. But she had a tumultuous relationship overall with Bruce and Jason, due to being a petty thief or something similar, due to coming from Crime Alley. Like Jason. Making Jason reluctant to go after her as Robin.

    Okay, I kind of went overboard there...
    No need to overcomplicate things. Much like with "For the Man Who Has Everything ", Nocturna and Jason's pre-Crisis story can be easily retconed to a post-Crisis settling, being tweaked and even become a nice Batman and Robin story, or rather, a Bruce and his current ward story. It may be easy to tweak and update into somethig more tuned with our times, I think.
    Last edited by Zaresh; 10-26-2019 at 10:23 PM.
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  14. #29
    Incredible Member Bat-Meal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Celgress View Post
    Perhaps, but I still contend the Nocturna stuff was in very poor taste especially coming on the heels of Kate/Maggie.
    It was, in poor taste, and just a strange choice otherwise.

    Batman and Nightwing have also had rape stories (Batman's one was retconned thankfully). This makes it an unfortunate pattern.
    Last edited by Bat-Meal; 10-27-2019 at 02:57 PM.

  15. #30
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    Not much! But she might be the only character that's dated both Batman and Batwoman, so there is that. She also might've tried to scandalously steal Jason Todd as an adoptee in the 80s, lost a battle for Batman's affection brutally to Catwoman, sometime went from a weird night-time/pale skinned moonlight diamond thief to a vampire ... and will probably be slain by the reformed version of Alice sometime in some unforeseen future.
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