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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bat-Meal View Post
    It was, in poor taste, and just a strange choice otherwise.

    Batman and Nightwing have also had rape stories (Batman's one was retconned thankfully). This makes it an unfortunate pattern.
    I agree with this.

    I'm not, from a storytelling/drama/thriller/horror side of things opposed to a couple of things. I'm not opposed to vampires being used in stories to tell rape allegories. Because they basically always have been that. You know, provided a story is willing to go into that territory and respect it and have it have meaning and consequences. And I'm not opposed to femme fatales just walking all over the boundaries of heroes, because again, that's part of the stock trope. They seem kind of alluring but just smash your boundaries and make you question your heroism and everything else. And Nocturna wound up being both a femme fatale and a vampire character so the tropes are just magnetic and bound to occur. Using things as pulp story tropes doesn't give them the level of respect they deserve, though.

    I remember thinking about it at the time. I do think, particularly in the case of your detective/street crime crime-buster characters, they're going to meet bad people, and bad people are comprised not just of murderers or thieves, but also rapers and stalkers and other their ilk. But encountering these seedy characters is not the same thing as our lead characters experiencing rape and then "end story arc", fresh start next month, true believers! Pretty cliched stuff.

    If a murderer successfully murdered Nightwing in an issue you'd probably expect some kind of follow-up.
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  2. #32
    Incredible Member Bat-Meal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by K. Jones View Post
    I agree with this.

    I'm not, from a storytelling/drama/thriller/horror side of things opposed to a couple of things. I'm not opposed to vampires being used in stories to tell rape allegories. Because they basically always have been that. You know, provided a story is willing to go into that territory and respect it and have it have meaning and consequences. And I'm not opposed to femme fatales just walking all over the boundaries of heroes, because again, that's part of the stock trope. They seem kind of alluring but just smash your boundaries and make you question your heroism and everything else. And Nocturna wound up being both a femme fatale and a vampire character so the tropes are just magnetic and bound to occur. Using things as pulp story tropes doesn't give them the level of respect they deserve, though.

    I remember thinking about it at the time. I do think, particularly in the case of your detective/street crime crime-buster characters, they're going to meet bad people, and bad people are comprised not just of murderers or thieves, but also rapers and stalkers and other their ilk. But encountering these seedy characters is not the same thing as our lead characters experiencing rape and then "end story arc", fresh start next month, true believers! Pretty cliched stuff.

    If a murderer successfully murdered Nightwing in an issue you'd probably expect some kind of follow-up.
    Well yeah, if the writers are going to go there, they aught to be willing to follow through properly.

    In both cases of Nightwing and Batwoman, the writers claimed it wasn't rape:

    Devin Grayson
    For the record, I've never used the word “rape,” I just said it was nonconsensual
    Source: https://www.comicboards.com/devin.php

    Andreyko_Batwoman.jpg

  3. #33
    Extraordinary Member Jackalope89's Avatar
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    "It's not rape. Its just non-consensual!"

    The definition of rape. It honestly seems like the only to deal with rape in the proper form, even though it wasn't to himself, was Jason as Robin, just before he died. Which is kind of odd, considering how much he was hated, even by his own writer at the time.

    DC seems to have a REALLY bad thing with rape in their stories.

  4. #34
    Fantastic Member Ulysses's Avatar
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    Ok well, thanks for letting me know what's up with Nocturna. You guys can keep talking about rape if you want though.
    “To the future or to the past. To a time when thought is free, when men are different from one another and do not live alone - to a time when truth exists and what is done cannot be undone: from the age of uniformity, from the age of solitude, from the age of Big Brother, from the age of doublethink - greetings!" - Winston Smith

  5. #35
    Incredible Member Bat-Meal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ulysses View Post
    Ok well, thanks for letting me know what's up with Nocturna. You guys can keep talking about rape if you want though.
    Well, that is basically what's up with Nocturna, she was turned into a rapist. But the very last time she was seen, as far as I know is when Batwoman stomped her:

    Nocturna_LastSeen.jpg

    IMHO, she was already down and defeated, the stomping was taking it way too far, but there you go. Another reason I'd like to see the whole saga retconned.
    Last edited by Bat-Meal; 10-27-2019 at 11:20 PM.

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