A History of Sex in DC Comics

[The Cool Thatguy]

Wally and Linda are implied to be very kinky couple bed:



Can't recall if Wally got it on with Tina, Connie or Frances.

He had one ex-girlfriend who thought her son was his, so probably

[witchboy]

Wally and Linda are implied to be very kinky couple bed:



Can't recall if Wally got it on with Tina, Connie or Frances.

I recently read the trade of the first 18 issues of Wally's first series. He got around a lot more than I expected. Within that span of time he was probably with five women at least. Two of them, in separate encounters, just in the first annual.

[caj]

Wasn't there a Batman story with Talia where it shows her with his child at the end.

I mean unless I'm remembering wrong, that definitely implies they had sex. And that was either in the 70s or early 80s.

[Restingvoice]

Wasn't there a Batman story with Talia where it shows her with his child at the end.

I mean unless I'm remembering wrong, that definitely implies they had sex. And that was either in the 70s or early 80s.

Son of The Demon. That's the story that Morrison used as a base for Damian's conception, except he remembered it wrong. It wasn't just sex, Bruce and Talia actually got married. It was an alternate universe.

1987

[John Venus]

In 'Son of the Demon', Bruce and Talia slept together and it was consensual though this time it resulted in Talia being pregnant. Bruce decided to be a father to the child and married her. However, Talia faked a miscarriage and had the baby adopted by kindly couple. Back in the day, Talia was a much more morally ambiguous character. There was even a scene in another story arc where she killed for the first time in a no win scenario to save Batman and the shock made her break down and cry. It was believable why she was torn between Batman and Ras and why Batman was attracted to her because despite her upbringing, there was some good in her.

Denny O'Neill, the then primary editor of the Bat Books, retconned the story because in his mind, Batman was impotent (more psychologically than physically). It was only after O'Neill left that scenes of Bruce sleeping around (especially with Catwoman) became more common place in the Bat Books. Especially when Morrison took over and in their words Bruce was a 'hairy chested love god'.

Then Mark Waid and Alex Ross wrote the immensely successful 'Kingdom Come' series. One minor character in the series was Ibn Al Xuffasch who was the grown up son of Talia and Bruce and in KC spin off titles, he hooked up with Nightstar who was the daughter of Dick Grayson and Starfire.

After the success of KC, the main DCU tried to incorporate aspects of KC into their main universe. Hence why we got characters like Cyclone/Maxine, Zachary Zatara, Jeniffer Pierce, Magog started appearing in the DCU and even this push where Diana was regarded as the Blood Knight who didn't have scruples about killing came out of KC. Even IC was their own riff on KC 'the main DCU is now dark! And edgy! Only we, the classic heroes from the past can fix it! but we ended up screwing it up even further!.

Which brings up to Morrison's Batman run. Morrison didn't remember the story arc clearly so they had Batman claim that Talia drugged him to conceive Damian. This pushed Talia into more villainous side and Morrison decided to pull on this thread all the way till Talia turned into a full blown mustache twirling super villain. Other writers followed up on it and even the animated Batman movies decided to adapt Talia as more of a villain than a morally gray character. Also, Morrison chose to name their 'Batman's son' character 'Damian Wayne' instead of his Arabic name 'Ibn Al X'uffasch' and made him an arrogant spoiled brat and ultimately ended up adding to the problematic Orientalist baggage of the Al Ghul family rather than minimizing it.

Anyway, aside from Bruce Wayne, Talia has also slept with:

-Bane: in 'Bane of the Demon'. From her perspective, it was a 'fling', a way for her to manipulate him and mostly so she could get him to back. Bane was more fixated on her though leading to some uncomfortable scenes where he is basically harassing her.

-Jason Todd: they slept in 'Lost Days' mini which covered the period between 'A Death In the Family' and 'Under the Red Hood'. No reasoning is given. Kind of disappointed that Jason hasn't quipped 'oh yeah, I banged with your mom!' at Damain at some point. I guess you could infer that she wanted to give the poor traumatized boy some comfort and show him a good time.

-Deathstroke: I think they slept in Priest's Deathstroke and maybe during Morrison's Batman run. I haven't read the former and my memory on the latter is foggy these days. Maybe someone else can elaborate?

[Restingvoice]

About Jason and Talia, Judd Winnick said, answering a fan question on why he wrote that scene that is considered messed up by fans (I think it was on Twitter but I didn't save it), that he didn't write it because he thinks it's a good thing, but because both Jason and Talia were in a very messed up place, and they acted on instinct as a revenge against Bruce.

Talia just lost her father, Batman let him die (away from the Pit I mean), while Jason found out Batman recruited a new Robin, after knowing that he never killed The Joker for him.

So they did what they thought, at their worst moment, an act of revenge against Bruce. Having sex with each other, both persons Bruce loved but in their eyes abandoned them. Talia initially helped Jason because she hoped Bruce would love her again if she saved his son, but screw Bruce, now she'll defile him, while Jason will take Bruce's former lover as his.

(That part is my reading, not Winnick's quote, just to clarify)

It was only for that moment though. Once it's done and they're on their elements again, they never talk about it again.

Except that one time Bruce visited Jason in Arkham, and he was portrayed as... not well, so he asked Batman about Damian's mom with two thumbs up and a wink

[witchboy]

I find it shocking that Morrison didn't bother to re-read Son of the Demon before writing a follow up to it.

[Slimybug]

Denny O'Neill, the then primary editor of the Bat Books, retconned the story because in his mind, Batman was impotent (more psychologically than physically). It was only after O'Neill left that scenes of Bruce sleeping around (especially with Catwoman) became more common place in the Bat Books. Especially when Morrison took over and in their words Bruce was a 'hairy chested love god'.

Interesting. During O'Neill's run, the first references to Batman bein sexually active were actually shown. My detective work can onl dig up this one panel, though, rom DC471, Jul. 1977.

silver1.jpg

Also, you say he was sleeping around, especially with Catwoman. That's interesting because Talia indicates in Hush that Batman and Catwoman have not been intimate yet. To my knowledge, the first indication of Bruce and Selina doing the deed was in Catwoman v3#39, March 2005.

[John Venus]

Interesting. During O'Neill's run, the first references to Batman bein sexually active were actually shown. My detective work can onl dig up this one panel, though, rom DC471, Jul. 1977.

silver1.jpg

Also, you say he was sleeping around, especially with Catwoman. That's interesting because Talia indicates in Hush that Batman and Catwoman have not been intimate yet. To my knowledge, the first indication of Bruce and Selina doing the deed was in Catwoman v3#39, March 2005.

That panel you posted is from the 70's and the comic it's from was written by Englehart. O'Neill was just the writer. Julius Schwartz was the editor of the Bat Books in the 70's. O'Neill became editor of Batman in 1986.

Batman in the 80's and the 90's was very celibate with the rare reference of him sleeping with someone. Though I think O'Neill did imply that Bruce slept with Talia back in the 70's, then Mike W Barr showed them actually doing it on panel in 'Batman Son of the Demon'. Mike W Barr did state in an interview that he saw Talia as Bruce's OTP and O'Neill felt the same.

I don't have the exact chronology of the Bat/Cat relationship. Hush was a big level up in their relationship, after cat and mouse game for years, Bruce actually revealed his secret identity to her. I don't recall any prior non-Earth 2 story implying that they had slept together. Their relationship also developed further in Brubaker's run and post Hush they were shown sleeping together often with Bruce even keeping a change of clothes at her apartment.

[John Venus]

About Jason and Talia, Judd Winnick said, answering a fan question on why he wrote that scene that is considered messed up by fans (I think it was on Twitter but I didn't save it), that he didn't write it because he thinks it's a good thing, but because both Jason and Talia were in a very messed up place, and they acted on instinct as a revenge against Bruce.

Talia just lost her father, Batman let him die (away from the Pit I mean), while Jason found out Batman recruited a new Robin, after knowing that he never killed The Joker for him.

So they did what they thought, at their worst moment, an act of revenge against Bruce. Having sex with each other, both persons Bruce loved but in their eyes abandoned them. Talia initially helped Jason because she hoped Bruce would love her again if she saved his son, but screw Bruce, now she'll defile him, while Jason will take Bruce's former lover as his.

(That part is my reading, not Winnick's quote, just to clarify)

It was only for that moment though. Once it's done and they're on their elements again, they never talk about it again.

Except that one time Bruce visited Jason in Arkham, and he was portrayed as... not well, so he asked Batman about Damian's mom with two thumbs up and a wink

Okay, that makes sense. Though I wish that was conveyed better in the story. Also I recall Talia was also sleeping with one of her henchmen in the story as well. They actually seem to have a good relationship.

I find it shocking that Morrison didn't bother to re-read Son of the Demon before writing a follow up to it.

Yeah, especially given how long they were on the title. Morrison could have rectified his mistake, say Bruce was mistaken and show what really happened. But they stuck to their guns for their entire 10 year run. Now the 'mistake' is the whole defining aspect of Talia's character.

[Restingvoice]

Okay, that makes sense. Though I wish that was conveyed better in the story. Also I recall Talia was also sleeping with one of her henchmen in the story as well. They actually seem to have a good relationship.

Yeah, she did. He started getting brave, telling her that Batman won't love her back just for Jason, and Tala said "You know the only reason I haven't killed you right now is that we're sleeping together right?" and the guy admitted that's the only reason he can dare to say those things in the first place

Oh and Jimmy Olsen in later Rebirth said he slept with Talia, though I don't know if it's true or not

[John Venus]

Yeah, that was Bendis. I don't consider that canon. Only scenario I can see that happening is if Talia used him like Superwoman used Jimmy in Morrison's 'Earth 2' story:






Superwoman was also sleeping with Ultraman and Owlman. She was also 'Lois' and not a true counterpart to WW. It's a pity that the best Morrison could do for an evil WW was to have her sleep around and not be connected to WW's mythology in any meaningful way. This was one aspect that the Earth 2 movie did better.

[John Venus]

Owlman and Superwoman:

[Restingvoice]

Yeah, that was Bendis. I don't consider that canon. Only scenario I can see that happening is if Talia used him like Superwoman used Jimmy in Morrison's 'Earth 2' story:






Superwoman was also sleeping with Ultraman and Owlman. She was also 'Lois' and not a true counterpart to WW. It's a pity that the best Morrison could do for an evil WW was to have her sleep around and not be connected to WW's mythology in any meaningful way. This was one aspect that the Earth 2 movie did better.

Wait so Johns didn't make up Superwoman sleeping with everyone thing? The whole who's the baby's father in Forever Evil made me laugh ^^

[witchboy]

I always wanted to know more about the Suuperwoman Lois. How did she get her powers to start with.
My headcanon is that Superwoman actually is Diana. She noticed a striking resemblance between her and the real Lois, killed her and stole her identity. It works as a dark parallel to Diana buying the real Diana Prince's identity in the Golden Age.