Thread Drift: Was what happened to Peter Parker in Amazing Spider-Man 700 really ever resolved?

[Thinker4730]

As are my science journals. You'd think that kind of science doesn't actually exist in the real world or something. But nah, that can't be. Real life scientists just must be hacks since they can't comprehend comic science enough to make it real. Clearly all science is one and the same be it real world or fiction.

It doesn't take much to look up something and use the meaning of the word the right way in reagrds to a fictional story that one is trying to tell. It actually shows good writing to do such a thing, but since we're talking about Slott here perhaps all that goes flying out the window.

If one looks up brainwaves it should be quite clear that such a thing shouldn't be shown to have transferred the personality from one person to another and vise versa as Slott did in his story since going by the very definition brainwaves don't contain the personality the consciousness does.

[Thinker4730]

The only point of view that matters in fiction is the authors.

I'm not aruging against that fact.

I'm arguing against how Slott is using brainwaves as a means to transfer the personalities of Peter and Doc Ock into each other's bodies when going by the very definition of brainwaves such a thing is impossible because brainwaves don't contain the personality the consciousness does.

Writers are not suppose to change the meanings of words to suit them they are suppose to use the meanings of words as they are to tell their story.

Slott is changing the meanings of words to fit want he wants instead of using the proper meanings of the words to tell his story.

So, going by the proper meanings of the words and using them when reading Slott's story the final conclusion is...

Peter's real mind was destoryed in Amazing Spider-Man #700 making Ghost Peter a cloned mind of the original Peter and that makes the real Peter to be dead.

I refuse to accept Slott's meanings for words because he isn't using the proper meanings of those words based on their very definition. Therefore in regards to Slott's story I reject his concept of the personalities being swapped between Peter and Doc Ock through brainwaves and change it to their proper concept...the consciousness because that is the correct term to use and as a result it is the only one that makes sense.

[Heasensy32]

Peter is not dead, he told me so last night on the phone.

[Thinker4730]

Peter is not dead, he told me so last night on the phone.

I don't think we are talking about the same Peter.

The Peter I'm talking about is the true name of the fictional character...Spider-Man...and if he's actually talking to you on the phone I suggest you go see a shrink right away.

[Coal Tiger]

I'm not aruging against that fact.

I'm arguing against how Slott is using brainwaves as a means to transfer the personalities of Peter and Doc Ock into each other's bodies when going by the very definition of brainwaves such a thing is impossible because brainwaves don't contain the personality the consciousness does.

Writers are not suppose to change the meanings of words to suit them they are suppose to use the meanings of words as they are to tell their story.

Slott is changing the meanings of words to fit want he wants instead of using the proper meanings of the words to tell his story.

So, going by the proper meanings of the words and using them when reading Slott's story the final conclusion is...

Peter's real mind was destoryed in Amazing Spider-Man #700 making Ghost Peter a cloned mind of the original Peter and that makes the real Peter to be dead.

I refuse to accept Slott's meanings for words because he isn't using the proper meanings of those words based on their very definition. Therefore in regards to Slott's story I reject his concept of the personalities being swapped between Peter and Doc Ock through brainwaves and change it to their proper concept...the consciousness because that is the correct term to use and as a result it is the only one that makes sense.

The only one that makes sense to you. So you truly are arguing against the fact that only the authors point of view matters. You're saying that only your point of view should matter to the readers of this comic. The vast majority of readers have accepted Slott's story as he told it. Maybe in the Marvel universe brainwaves are personality. Maybe "brainwaves" are just Ock's shorthand for the aspects of a brain that can be transferred to another one. Since actual real world scientists don't know what truly makes us "us" and are unable to truly quantify a "consciousness" there's a lot of wiggle room in the "science" behind brain-swapping. Your argument seems like it's just a semantic one, so you should probably stop being so literal. These aren't documentaries. There isn't some third-party presiding over what "really happened" in a story. A writer writes the story and an artist draws it and that's pretty much it. Authorial intent supersedes personal interpretation 100% of the time when it comes to what's canon. "Refuse to accept" all you want, but it doesn't change what the comic says happened.

[Thinker4730]

The only one that makes sense to you. So you truly are arguing against the fact that only the authors point of view matters. You're saying that only your point of view should matter to the readers of this comic. The vast majority of readers have accepted Slott's story as he told it. Maybe in the Marvel universe brainwaves are personality. Maybe "brainwaves" are just Ock's shorthand for the aspects of a brain that can be transferred to another one. Since actual real world scientists don't know what truly makes us "us" and are unable to truly quantify a "consciousness" there's a lot of wiggle room in the "science" behind brain-swapping. Your argument seems like it's just a semantic one, so you should probably stop being so literal. These aren't documentaries. There isn't some third-party presiding over what "really happened" in a story. A writer writes the story and an artist draws it and that's pretty much it. Authorial intent supersedes personal interpretation 100% of the time when it comes to what's canon. "Refuse to accept" all you want, but it doesn't change what the comic says happened.

Have you not been paying attention to what I've been saying?!

Slott is changing the meanings of words to fit want he wants instead of using the proper meanings of the words to tell his story.

What kind of writer does that?

Writers are not suppose to change the meanings of words to suit them they are suppose to use the meanings of words as they are to tell their story.

I write and draw my own comic as a hobby and I would never do what Slott has done. I wouldn't alter the meaing of a word to suit my needs I'd tell my story using the correct meaning of the words.

The definition of brainwaves does not have anything to do with the consciousness so how can it logically have anything to do with the transfer of personalities between Peter and Doc Ock?

How can you accept Slott's story as it is knowing that such a thing doesn't make any sense by the very definitions of the words?

Going by the definition of brainwaves it's stating what the brain does physically by stating a series of electric impulses from the nerve centers in the brain.

Going by the definition of consciousness it's stating what's outside of the physical workings of the brain by going into one's awareness and the totality of one's thoughts and feelings.

In regards to the story Slott should've used the actual consciousness that was transferred not this whole brainwave business because such a thing doesn't make any sense going by the definitions.

The only reason why the vast majority of readers have accepted Slott's story as he told it is because they want Peter to be the real Peter and not a clone mind of the original (which is what is in Peter's body now) and that's exactly what Slott is counting on. Slott hates people who think and challenge his stories, but it's his own fault for how he writes his stories. If he used the proper meanings of words via going by the actual definitions and not altering them to suit him we wouldn't be having this discussion now...this thread wouldn't even exist.

Is it so hard to use the meaning of a word correctly for the sake of a story? Why couldn't Slott simply have used the consciousness being swapped instead of using this brainwave swapping business that has no connection to the consciousness whatsoever going by its very definition?

And how can people willingly accept what Slott has done?

He's changing the meanings of words to suit his needs in the stories that he writes.

How can such a thing be acceptable to anyone?

It doesn't matter whether the story is fiction or not...writers shouldn't go around changing the meanings of words (their very defintions) to suit their needs in the stories they write. They should use the meanings of the words as they are defined in their stories they write.

[joshuastar]

I'm not aruging against that fact.

I'm arguing against how Slott is using brainwaves as a means to transfer the personalities of Peter and Doc Ock into each other's bodies when going by the very definition of brainwaves such a thing is impossible because brainwaves don't contain the personality the consciousness does.

How do you know that? aside from "common sense", that is. Is it possible that brain waves carry personality? has it been proven impossible?

[Kurolegacy]

Have you not been paying attention to what I've been saying?!

Slott is changing the meanings of words to fit want he wants instead of using the proper meanings of the words to tell his story.

What kind of writer does that?

Writers are not suppose to change the meanings of words to suit them they are suppose to use the meanings of words as they are to tell their story.

I write and draw my own comic as a hobby and I would never do what Slott has done. I wouldn't alter the meaing of a word to suit my needs I'd tell my story using the correct meaning of the words.

The definition of brainwaves does not have anything to do with the consciousness so how can it logically have anything to do with the transfer of personalities between Peter and Doc Ock?

How can you accept Slott's story as it is knowing that such a thing doesn't make any sense by the very definitions of the words?

Going by the definition of brainwaves it's stating what the brain does physically by stating a series of electric impulses from the nerve centers in the brain.

Going by the definition of consciousness it's stating what's outside of the physical workings of the brain by going into one's awareness and the totality of one's thoughts and feelings.

In regards to the story Slott should've used the actual consciousness that was transferred not this whole brainwave business because such a thing doesn't make any sense going by the definitions.

The only reason why the vast majority of readers have accepted Slott's story as he told it is because they want Peter to be the real Peter and not a clone mind of the original (which is what is in Peter's body now) and that's exactly what Slott is counting on. Slott hates people who think and challenge his stories, but it's his own fault for how he writes his stories. If he used the proper meanings of words via going by the actual definitions and not altering them to suit him we wouldn't be having this discussion now...this thread wouldn't even exist.

Is it so hard to use the meaning of a word correctly for the sake of a story? Why couldn't Slott simply have used the consciousness being swapped instead of using this brainwave swapping business that has no connection to the consciousness whatsoever going by its very definition?

And how can people willingly accept what Slott has done?

He's changing the meanings of words to suit his needs in the stories that he writes.

How can such a thing be acceptable to anyone?

It doesn't matter whether the story is fiction or not...writers shouldn't go around changing the meanings of words (their very defintions) to suit their needs in the stories they write. They should use the meanings of the words as they are defined in their stories they write.

In the case you haven't been paying attention, no one cares if Slott used a word incorrectly because that's just being anal. We read comics in order to be entertained by the stories that they tell, not to be splitting hairs over a word's usage. Last I checked, a mutation doesn't give you super powers but an entire franchise has been built around the fact with X-Men and being exposed to gamma or cosmic radiation won't empower you, it'll kill you. If you're really taking comics that seriously to the point of being that anal over something so miniscule, you might want to consider a new hobby.

[Minerboh]

Peter is not dead, he told me so last night on the phone.

Tell him that i spoke with Otto the other day on the phone and he's sending his regards.

[Kurolegacy]

Tell him that i spoke with Otto the other day on the phone and he's sending his regards.

Hell must get some pretty good reception for him to be calling you or did he call you in the past from the future?

[Coal Tiger]

Have you not been paying attention to what I've been saying?!

Slott is changing the meanings of words to fit want he wants instead of using the proper meanings of the words to tell his story.

What kind of writer does that?

Writers are not suppose to change the meanings of words to suit them they are suppose to use the meanings of words as they are to tell their story.

I write and draw my own comic as a hobby and I would never do what Slott has done. I wouldn't alter the meaing of a word to suit my needs I'd tell my story using the correct meaning of the words.

The definition of brainwaves does not have anything to do with the consciousness so how can it logically have anything to do with the transfer of personalities between Peter and Doc Ock?

How can you accept Slott's story as it is knowing that such a thing doesn't make any sense by the very definitions of the words?

Going by the definition of brainwaves it's stating what the brain does physically by stating a series of electric impulses from the nerve centers in the brain.

Going by the definition of consciousness it's stating what's outside of the physical workings of the brain by going into one's awareness and the totality of one's thoughts and feelings.

In regards to the story Slott should've used the actual consciousness that was transferred not this whole brainwave business because such a thing doesn't make any sense going by the definitions.

The only reason why the vast majority of readers have accepted Slott's story as he told it is because they want Peter to be the real Peter and not a clone mind of the original (which is what is in Peter's body now) and that's exactly what Slott is counting on. Slott hates people who think and challenge his stories, but it's his own fault for how he writes his stories. If he used the proper meanings of words via going by the actual definitions and not altering them to suit him we wouldn't be having this discussion now...this thread wouldn't even exist.

Is it so hard to use the meaning of a word correctly for the sake of a story? Why couldn't Slott simply have used the consciousness being swapped instead of using this brainwave swapping business that has no connection to the consciousness whatsoever going by its very definition?

And how can people willingly accept what Slott has done?

He's changing the meanings of words to suit his needs in the stories that he writes.

How can such a thing be acceptable to anyone?

It doesn't matter whether the story is fiction or not...writers shouldn't go around changing the meanings of words (their very defintions) to suit their needs in the stories they write. They should use the meanings of the words as they are defined in their stories they write.

Do you also resent Stan Lee for using "gamma rays" to explain the Hulk's powers? Going by the definitions of gamma rays, Bruce Banner should never have developed the ability to turn into a giant green monster. Why do people willingly accept how Stan Lee changed the meanings of words for his stories? Does Lee also hate his readers?

[ShaokhaN]

Going by the definition of consciousness it's stating what's outside of the physical workings of the brain by going into one's awareness and the totality of one's thoughts and feelings.

There's nothing about consciousness that isn't physical. One's subjective perceptions can be entirely reduced to the physical workings of the brain.

[Thinker4730]

How do you know that? aside from "common sense", that is. Is it possible that brain waves carry personality? has it been proven impossible?

Yes, it has because brainwaves are the physical actions of the brain they have nothing to do with the consciousness. The consciousness is a totally separate thing because it deals with things outside the physical actions of the brain. If you look up the definitions of both brainwaves and consciousness you can see that for yourself.

[Thinker4730]

In the case you haven't been paying attention, no one cares if Slott used a word incorrectly because that's just being anal. We read comics in order to be entertained by the stories that they tell, not to be splitting hairs over a word's usage. Last I checked, a mutation doesn't give you super powers but an entire franchise has been built around the fact with X-Men and being exposed to gamma or cosmic radiation won't empower you, it'll kill you. If you're really taking comics that seriously to the point of being that anal over something so miniscule, you might want to consider a new hobby.

You know something I just get the feeling that everyone here is just rejecting everything I'm saying simply because you want Peter to be the real Peter and so you just accept Slott's story as is. It is human nature to reject anything that we don't want to accept no matter how much evidence there is to support what we choose to reject.

[deadboy80]

With the tech that icon used, it cloned docks mind and peters mind. He then imprinted his over peters in peters body. While doing this he imprinted peters over his own in his body. During Superior, Peters true mind started coming to the surface. Icon becoming aware of this then "defeats" him in a psychic battle. Some remnants of peters original mind survive. At the end of Superior icon suposedly erases his cloned imprinted mind leaving the remnants of peters mind in controll. So yes this is Peter, not a fake. The fake cloned mind died in Oxidation body with Oxidation original mind at the end of Amazing 700. The only way for there to be any Icon down the line is for Spiderverse , or for dock to have downloaded a copy of his mind elsewhere.