Thread Drift: Was what happened to Peter Parker in Amazing Spider-Man 700 really ever resolved?

[Kurolegacy]

My understanding of the whole Superior Spider-Man business is that the mind-swap didn't actually happen as first portrayed. The Peter who died in #700 was a copy of his mind implanted in Ock's head. Likewise, the Superior Spider-Man was the cloned mind of Doc Ock, layered over original Peter's brain. The "real" Doc Ock died in #700, though with his body missing I'm sure he will be resurrected, his personality restored from his physical brain (possibly with the copy of Peter ruling the head temporarily?). Peter never died, but only had his mind suppressed for 30-something issues.

Don't know if this is how it actually worked out at the end of Superior (I found the ending incomprehensible) but it makes sense for me.

I agree that OMD means we've been seeing an alternate-reality Spidey, but there's no way to fix that now, so best just try to forget.

I'm inclined to think that Spider-Verse is really softening us all up to accept alternate realities as just as valid as 616, with it all ending with a new (younger, obviously) version of Peter taking over as the "real" one.

That's my thoughts on the whole situation, especially since when Spock went to delete Peter's memories, he also had the Living Brain delete Peter's memories from the golden octobot as well. That tells us that there had been the mindset of Peter simultaneously in 3 places; the original within Peter's body, in the golden octobot and in Doc Ock's body.

[Aura Blaize]

His mind was "cloned." Exactly. Doc Ock overrote Peter's brain patterns with his own and vice versa. Therefore, the Peter Parker in doc ock's body was the clone, not the current Peter.

Despite what Ock says, there is strong evidence that the Peter Parker we see was a fragment of Peter's mind that survived being "erased".

[Thinker4730]

If this is how you interpret the story, why do you think Dan Slott did it that way? Is he setting up something for a future story? Did he decide to quietly kill off one of the most famous characters in comics? Or did he not realize what he was doing?

I think Slott simply did it to tell a story not caring about the details that I'm pointing out when it came to doing that story knowing that fans in general would likely be fooled and just accept the clone mind of Peter existing in his original body. I bet he was counting on most people not thinking things out like I do...in other words people being gullible.

Heck, Marvel in general doesn't seem to care about the details when it comes to retconning things properly in regards to OMD. They have yet to reveal how Ben Reilly was supposedly revealed to be the "real" Peter Parker without involving baby May who was stated to be the daughter of a clone during the 2nd Clone Saga.

Note: I buy the explanation that Ghost Peter was the real Peter. I'm curious as to what you think.

How can Ghost Peter be the real Peter when Peter died in Doc Ock's body?

I know you're likely thinking that brainwaves were overridden and Peter was always Peter brainwashed into believing he was Doc Ock, but if that is the case then consider the following...

Why didn't Ghost Peter begin fighting for control of his body right after the supposed mindswap?

If he was simply brainwashed into believing he was Doc Ock then Ghost Peter should've shown up way before Doc Ock died in his own body believing he was Peter.

Memories are not consciousness and Doc Ock stated that Peter's memories developed into a consciousness and took a life of their own. That means that Ghost Peter wasn't the consciousness of the real Peter because Peter's true consciousness died in Doc Ock's body.

[Thinker4730]

His mind was "cloned." Exactly. Doc Ock overrote Peter's brain patterns with his own and vice versa. Therefore, the Peter Parker in doc ock's body was the clone, not the current Peter.

Despite what Ock says, there is strong evidence that the Peter Parker we see was a fragment of Peter's mind that survived being "erased".

Let's really examine what you stated above.

Doc Ock wanted to cheat death.

How was he cheating death unless he is doing an actual mindswap into Peter's body and vice versa?

Why create a machine that just overrides brainwaves?

Brainwaves are NOT a consciousness and Doc Ock wouldn't even bother to create such a machine to do that because it would fail to do what he planned to do.

Doc Ock and Peter consciousness were transfered into each others bodies...they were mindswapped.

Whatever Peter did when he uploaded memories into his body before dying in Doc Ock's body triggered something to create Ghost Peter (which is a clone of Peter's original consciousness) because if that wasn't the case then Ghost Peter should've appeared fighting to regain control over his body way before Peter even died in Doc Ock's body.

[dantefrizzoli]

After this new spider verse, and echo and this peter create the ul;itmate xtreme ultimate pureblood spider baby, the one peter who never had OMD, or Superior, will be back for clone wars 3 on spider island in 2099

[Kurolegacy]

Let's really examine what you stated above.

Doc Ock wanted to cheat death.

How was he cheating death unless he is doing an actual mindswap into Peter's body and vice versa?

Why create a machine that just overrides brainwaves?

Brainwaves are NOT a consciousness and Doc Ock wouldn't even bother to create such a machine to do that because it would fail to do what he planned to do.

To answer that is simple, even if his body has perished, his mind lives on in some form. Thus he has cheated death. It's a basic villain thought process.

And for the record, the story itself says that it placed the brain patterns of both into the opposite body. That means that it rewrote their brain patterns, not physically swapped them. It's written right there in issue 699. If you're gonna argue that their minds had been swapped, then what is your diagnosis for characters such as Vision or Jocasta whom have the brain patterns of Wonder Man and Wasp respectively?

[Tendrin]

To answer that is simple, even if his body has perished, his mind lives on in some form. Thus he has cheated death. It's a basic villain thought process.

And for the record, the story itself says that it placed the brain patterns of both into the opposite body. That means that it rewrote their brain patterns, not physically swapped them. It's written right there in issue 699. If you're gonna argue that their minds had been swapped, then what is your diagnosis for characters such as Vision or Jocasta whom have the brain patterns of Wonder Man and Wasp respectively?

My only advice is: don't worry overly much about the pseudoscience.

[AJpyro]

Actually about Ghost Peter, someone mentioned that during the mind swap/whatev that Peter's mind was suppressed in favor of SPock's. Wouldn't it have helped if we saw signs of the suppression within the mind? In SSM #9 we see the mindscape battle but before that when GP was hiding, shouldn't there have been some evidence of the suppression?

[Kurolegacy]

Actually about Ghost Peter, someone mentioned that during the mind swap/whatev that Peter's mind was suppressed in favor of SPock's. Wouldn't it have helped if we saw signs of the suppression within the mind? In SSM #9 we see the mindscape battle but before that when GP was hiding, shouldn't there have been some evidence of the suppression?

Well throughout the issues of Superior we did see instances where Peter was (unconsciously to Otto) drawn to the surface when he was trying to search the mindscape for a way to claim his body back. And in addition, in spite of his presence there he could only assert small bits of control over his body at any given time. In fact by issue 9, the best he could do was control his one arm.

[Aura Blaize]

Let's really examine what you stated above.

Doc Ock wanted to cheat death.

How was he cheating death unless he is doing an actual mindswap into Peter's body and vice versa?

Why create a machine that just overrides brainwaves?

Brainwaves are NOT a consciousness and Doc Ock wouldn't even bother to create such a machine to do that because it would fail to do what he planned to do.

Doc Ock and Peter consciousness were transfered into each others bodies...they were mindswapped.

Whatever Peter did when he uploaded memories into his body before dying in Doc Ock's body triggered something to create Ghost Peter (which is a clone of Peter's original consciousness) because if that wasn't the case then Ghost Peter should've appeared fighting to regain control over his body way before Peter even died in Doc Ock's body.

Simple. It was less about cheating death and more about leaving his mark upon the world and getting the final blow against his greatest enemy. Even if he would actually die, his legacy would live on....quite literally.

[August_Gorman]

I'd like to second (or third, or forth) whoever said the thing about it being whatever the writer says. That's all there is too it. Anything else, and you're taking wacky fiction too seriously and should probably calm down or breath into a paper bag or something.

[Tendrin]

I'd like to second (or third, or forth) whoever said the thing about it being whatever the writer says. That's all there is too it. Anything else, and you're taking wacky fiction too seriously and should probably calm down or breath into a paper bag or something.

Comic book fans, man. Fucking comic book fans. xD

[Thinker4730]

I'd like to second (or third, or forth) whoever said the thing about it being whatever the writer says. That's all there is too it. Anything else, and you're taking wacky fiction too seriously and should probably calm down or breath into a paper bag or something.

By doing what he did in the story Slott has revealed that Peter's mind has been cloned. The only thing he hasn't done is flat out state that Peter's mind has been cloned, but going by the info revealed in the story it's the only logical conclusion that one can come to.

I would love to agree that Peter is the real Peter, but going by what has been revealed in the story I can't do that.

The real Peter Parker is dead. The mind in his body isn't his original mind...it's as simple as that.

[emac1790]

No where in the story I read said Peter's mind was cloned. IIRC (I don't have the book in front of me) the story said the brain patterns were overwritten. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

[Thinker4730]

To answer that is simple, even if his body has perished, his mind lives on in some form. Thus he has cheated death. It's a basic villain thought process.

And for the record, the story itself says that it placed the brain patterns of both into the opposite body. That means that it rewrote their brain patterns, not physically swapped them. It's written right there in issue 699. If you're gonna argue that their minds had been swapped, then what is your diagnosis for characters such as Vision or Jocasta whom have the brain patterns of Wonder Man and Wasp respectively?

Brain patterns are NOT the same as a consciousness.

One's personality isn't linked to brain patterns it's linked to the consciousness.

And it's quite clear that Doc Ock was Doc Ock in Peter's body and Peter was Peter in Doc Ock's body.